§ Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow)I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House, under Standing Order No. 20, for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter that should have urgent consideration, namely,
The imminent vote in the Security Council on the limit of time on Iraqi withdrawal from Kuwait.The matter is specific because the issue is no longer the "invasion of Kuwait" but whether outsiders have the right to intervene, even if such intervention involves misery on a scale that is out of all proportion to the initial outrage.I have to persuade you, Mr. Speaker, that the matter is urgent. The crucial discussion in the UN is to take place on Thursday, and the hostages to whom my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney, North and Stoke Newington (Ms. Abbott) and others have referred, may prefer detention in Baghdad to the death from the sky which would be their certain fate if war broke out.
The matter is important, and important to the House, because we here must not indulge in courage by proxy. It costs those sitting on these green Benches little to make declarations to the effect that we must resist or that we must do this, that or the other in terms of a military option.
The high price of war will be paid by the country's youth, who were often reared in urban wastelands because there was "no money" to give them anything better. We have obligations to our service men. As national service tank crew and as one who for 21 months wore the emblem of the Desert Rats, I think that it is extremely important that the House shows those in service positions that we discuss what we propose to do.
This question has been repeatedly put and has equally repeatedly been unanswered: what on earth happens if more than one oilfield catches fire? There is only one Red Adair team. At least those questions should be answered before people start firing bullets and setting fire to oilfields.
There is also a matter which is personal to yourself, Mr. Speaker, as Speaker of the House. There are occasions when the two Front Benches are basically agreed on a course of action, rightly or wrongly. I believe that some of us, perhaps many of us on the Opposition Benches, do not share that consensus. Therefore, we rely on your judgment to form a view on whether there should be a debate on a matter of this kind. The Gulf is a matter of overwhelming importance and urgency. If it is not discussed on Tuesday, or, at the latest, Wednesday, it will be too late and decisions will then be made in the United Nations.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) asks leave to move the Adjournment of the 622 House, under Standing Order No. 20, for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter that he believes should have urgent consideration, namely,
the imminent vote in the Security Council on the limit of time on Iraqi withdrawal from Kuwait.I in no way underestimate what the hon. Gentleman has said. However, as he knows, under Standing Order No. 20, I must announce my decisions without giving reasons to the House. I have listened with concern and care to the hon. Gentleman, but he knows that I must decide whether his application comes within the Standing Order and whether it should take precedence over the business set down for today or for tomorrow. I regret that, in this case, the matter does not meet the requirements of the Standing Order, and I cannot therefore today submit his application to the House.
§ Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerArising from the application under Standing Order No. 20?
§ Mr. WinnickYes.
§ Mr. SpeakerWell, we cannot have points of order arising out of that.
§ Mr. WinnickOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Will you give guidance to the House? As it is clear that action is likely to be taken on the diplomatic front, would it not be appropriate, as my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) suggested, for the House to debate the issue as quickly as possible? Obviously there are many different and varied views in the House about the situation in the Gulf, and my view differs from that of my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow. However, I believe that he has a valid point, although there are those of us who believe that it may be necessary for military action to be taken while others like my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow take the opposite point of view.
In the face of the possibility of military conflict, it would be appropriate that there should be a debate on the matter in the House. Can you give the House any advice about such a debate? If you cannot grant one using your powers under Standing Order No. 20, can the Government be persuaded to have a debate in the near future?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is a very different matter. The hon. Gentleman is aware that I have difficult decisions to take in these matters. I weighed what the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) had to say with great care, because I received his request to make the application before 12 o'clock today. I have not turned down his application lightly, and in no way do I underestimate the importance of the matter.