§ Amendments made: No. 16, in page 19, line 9, column 3, leave out from beginning to end of line 12 and insert—
| 'In section 10— | ||
| (a) in subsection (3A), the words "of that breach or interference"; | ||
| (b) in subsection (4), the words "strike or other"; | ||
| (c) in subsection (4A), the words "inducing a breach or interference"; | ||
| (d) in subsection (5), the definitions of "authorisation or endorsement" "commercial contract", "contract of employment" "relevant act" and "tort" and the words from" and any reference" to the end.'. |
§ No 17, in page 19, line 22, at end insert—
| '1988 c.19. | Employment Act 1988. | In section 1— |
| (a) in subsection (2), the words from "(including" to "endorsement)"; | ||
| (b) in subsection (5), the words "an authorisation or endorsement by a trade union of any".'.—[Mr. Howard.] |
§ Order for Third Reading read.
§ 10.1 pm
§ Mr. HowardI beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
The Bill is a further step in the step-by-step reform of industrial relations that was begun more than 10 years ago. It carries that process of reform an important stage further by removing the last vestige of legal protection from the closed shop and imposing necessary restraints on secondary action and wildcat strikes. It also gives trade union members rights not to be refused employment on account of their membership.
§ Mr. Robert Hayward (Kingswood)May I put on record the fact that I regret the continued omission of a dispensation for employers who hold strong religious beliefs and who do not have equal freedom not to recognise trade unions in the same way that employees have that right.
§ Mr. HowardMy hon. Friend knows that we have given careful consideration to that, as I undertook on Second Reading that we would, but we are unable to meet the point that he has raised.
The Labour party believes that the role of the law in these matters is to protect the striker and the union leader. We believe that the law must protect jobs and businesses from the abuse of industrial power and that it must guarantee the democratic rights of trade union members. That is what the Bill will achieve, and that is why I commend it to the House.
§ 10.3 pm
§ Mr. BlairWe have debated the Bill for many weeks in Committee and again in the House today. I suggest that two issues have emerged clearly. First, the Bill is unfair because it fails to provide protection against discrimination on the ground of people's trade union activities and against the blacklisting of people who are active in trade unions—something which should unite all democratic members of society. It bans any form of sympathy action, no matter what the circumstances or justification.
The Bill is unfair, above all, because it removes from people the right to go to an industrial tribunal and it shuts out the jurisdiction of the tribunal when people take unofficial action, irrespective of the reasons for their action and even when they are about issues such as health and safety—matters which should concern us all.
The Bill is unfair and it is also irrelevant. As we examine the issues that face Britain today—the training and skills crisis, the problems of low pay and problems concerned with women at work—and measure the Bill against those problems, it is clear that it fails not merely because it is unfair but because it is utterly irrelevant to the nation's future. A Labour Government will in due course address that future.
§ 10.5 pm
§ Mr. WallaceThe one good step that the Bill takes is to abolish the pre-entry closed shop. We on this Bench not only welcome that, but we called on the Government to take that step even before they were prepared to do so. That aside, the Bill and particularly clause 7 is so wholly alien to the promotion of good industrial relations that as a package it cannot possibly be supported.
The Government are aware that we on this Bench have been prepared to support some of the employment legislation that they have introduced. For example, we strongly supported ballots. But we believe that the purpose of the law in industrial relations—where it should appear at all—should be in the pursuit of balance and fairness. This Bill, like the measure on this subject introduced in the previous Session, is an effort to tilt the balance in favour of employers by introducing small measures here and there—and, in clause 7, a large measure—which disrupt that balance.
To bring in the law in that way is no substitute for a proper and good industrial partnership in industrial relations. The measure will not achieve the good industrial relations that hon. Members in all parts of the House wish to see.
§ 10.7 pm
§ Mr. Peter Griffiths (Portsmouth, North)I listened carefully to the remarks of Labour Members. I had not intended to intervene at this stage because my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Mr. Hayward), in an intervention to the Secretary of State, covered the point that I wanted to make.
I welcome the Bill because of the contribution that it will make to providing a more satisfactory mechanism by which powerful bodies representing workers and employers may settle disputes and because it seeks in a genuine way to provide for the consciences of individual workers to be met.
When my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood raised with the Minister the question of people's religious 1112 conscience, there was a cry from the hon. Member for St. Helens, North (Mr. Evans), from a sedentary position, to the effect that we should not take notice of the Plymouth Brethren because they did not vote. That was a disgraceful statement to make——
§ Mr. John EvansOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it in order for the hon. Gentleman to put words in my mouth? I did not make the statement that he claimed I made. I said that the hon. Member for Kingswood (Mr. Hayward) would not get the Plymouth Brethren vote because they did not vote.
§ Mr. SpeakerI do not intend to get involved in that matter.
§ Mr. GriffithsI accept the hon. Gentleman's interpretation of his own words. The suggestion that we should ignore the legitimate, deeply held views of a body of people who may not vote is unacceptable to me. It is important for us to put on record the fact that at least some hon. Members take the view that we are here to represent all the people, regardless of whether they voted in the last election or will vote in the next. The genuinely held conscience of individuals is a matter of great concern to the House, even at a little after 10 o'clock.
§ Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 173, Noes 133.
| Division No. 216] | [10.08 pm |
| AYES | |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Dickens, Geoffrey |
| Alexander, Richard | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael | Dover, Den |
| Amos, Alan | Dunn, Bob |
| Arbuthnot, James | Durant, Tony |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Dykes, Hugh |
| Arnold, Tom (Hazel Grove) | Eggar, Tim |
| Atkins, Robert | Evennett, David |
| Atkinson, David | Fallon, Michael |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N) | Fishburn, John Dudley |
| Baldry, Tony | Forman, Nigel |
| Bellingham, Henry | Fox, Sir Marcus |
| Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Franks, Cecil |
| Benyon, W. | Freeman, Roger |
| Bevan, David Gilroy | Gardiner, George |
| Blaker, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Garel-Jones, Tristan |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Gill, Christopher |
| Boswell, Tim | Glyn, Dr Sir Alan |
| Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) | Goodhart, Sir Philip |
| Bowis, John | Goodlad, Alastair |
| Braine, Rt Hon Sir Bernard | Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles |
| Brandon-Bravo, Martin | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's) | Gow, Ian |
| Browne, John (Winchester) | Grant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW) |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) |
| Burns, Simon | Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N) |
| Butler, Chris | Ground, Patrick |
| Carlisle, John, (Luton N) | Hague, William |
| Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Carrington, Matthew | Hanley, Jeremy |
| Carttiss, Michael | Hannam, John |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn) |
| Chapman, Sydney | Harris, David |
| Chope, Christopher | Hawkins, Christopher |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Hayhoe, Rt Hon Sir Barney |
| Clark, Sir W. (Croydon S) | Hayward, Robert |
| Conway, Derek | Hill, James |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest) | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Curry, David | Howarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd) |
| Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g) | Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk) |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W) |
| Day, Stephen | Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) |
| Hunter, Andrew | Patnick, Irvine |
| Irvine, Michael | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Jack, Michael | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Jackson, Robert | Portillo, Michael |
| Janman, Tim | Raffan, Keith |
| Jessel, Toby | Raison, Rt Hon Timothy |
| Jones, Robert B (Herts W) | Redwood, John |
| Key, Robert | Renton, Rt Hon Tim |
| Kilfedder, James | Rhodes James, Robert |
| King, Roger (B'ham N'thfield) | Riddick, Graham |
| Kirkhope, Timothy | Ridsdale, Sir Julian |
| Knapman, Roger | Rost, Peter |
| Knight, Greg (Derby North) | Rowe, Andrew |
| Knowles, Michael | Ryder, Richard |
| Knox, David | Sainsbury, Hon Tim |
| Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Lightbown, David | Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) |
| Lilley, Peter | Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') |
| Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant) | Shelton, Sir William |
| Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) | Shephard, Mrs G. (Norfolk SW) |
| Lord, Michael | Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) |
| Macfarlane, Sir Neil | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Maclean, David | Soames, Hon Nicholas |
| Malins, Humfrey | Spicer, Sir Jim (Dorset W) |
| Mans, Keith | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| Marshall, Michael (Arundel) | Steen, Anthony |
| Mates, Michael | Stevens, Lewis |
| Maude, Hon Francis | Stewart, Allan (Eastwood) |
| Mawhinney, Dr Brian | Stewart, Andy (Sherwood) |
| Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick | Stradling Thomas, Sir John |
| Meyer, Sir Anthony | Sumberg, David |
| Miller, Sir Hal | Thompson, D. (Calder Valley) |
| Mills, Iain | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) | Thurnham, Peter |
| Moate, Roger | Tracey, Richard |
| Monro, Sir Hector | Walker, Bill (T'side North) |
| Montgomery, Sir Fergus | Watts, John |
| Morris, M (N'hampton S) | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Morrison, Sir Charles | Wood, Timothy |
| Moss, Malcolm | Yeo, Tim |
| Moynihan, Hon Colin | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Neubert, Michael | |
| Nicholls, Patrick | Tellers for the Ayes; |
| Norris, Steve | Mr. John Taylor and Mr. Tom Sackville. |
| Onslow, Rt Hon Cranley | |
| Oppenheim, Phillip | |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Blair, Tony |
| Allen, Graham | Boateng, Paul |
| Anderson, Donald | Brown, Gordon (D'mline E) |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Brown, Nicholas (Newcastle E) |
| Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy | Brown, Ron (Edinburgh Leith) |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Buchan, Norman |
| Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE) | Buckley, George J. |
| Battle, John | Caborn, Richard |
| Beckett, Margaret | Callaghan, Jim |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Campbell, Ron (Blyth Valley) |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Campbell-Savours, D. N. |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Carlile, Alex (Mont'g) |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | McLeish, Henry |
| Clay, Bob | McWilliam, John |
| Cohen, Harry | Madden, Max |
| Coleman, Donald | Mahon, Mrs Alice |
| Cook, Frank (Stockton N) | Marek, Dr John |
| Cook, Robin (Livingston) | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Corbett, Robin | Martin, Michael J. (Springburn) |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | Martlew, Eric |
| Cryer, Bob | Maxton, John |
| Cummings, John | Meale, Alan |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) | Mitchell, Austin (G't Grimsby) |
| Dixon, Don | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Doran, Frank | Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe) |
| Eadie, Alexander | Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) |
| Eastham, Ken | Mowlam, Marjorie |
| Evans, John (St Helens N) | Murphy, Paul |
| Ewing, Harry (Falkirk E) | Nellist, Dave |
| Field, Frank (Birkenhead) | O'Brien, William |
| Fisher, Mark | Orme, Rt Hon Stanley |
| Flannery, Martin | Patchett, Terry |
| Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Pike, Peter L. |
| Foster, Derek | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Foulkes, George | Prescott, John |
| Fyfe, Maria | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Galloway, George | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Garrett, John (Norwich South) | Redmond, Martin |
| Garrett, Ted (Wallsend) | Reid, Dr John |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Richardson, Jo |
| Graham, Thomas | Robertson, George |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | Robinson, Geoffrey |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Rogers, Allan |
| Grocott, Bruce | Ruddock, Joan |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | Sheerman, Barry |
| Haynes, Frank | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Henderson, Doug | Short, Clare |
| Hinchliffe, David | Skinner, Dennis |
| Hoey, Ms Kate (Vauxhall) | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth) | Smith, J. P. (Vale of Glam) |
| Home Robertson, John | Soley, Clive |
| Howells, Geraint | Taylor, Matthew (Truro) |
| Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) | Turner, Dennis |
| Hughes, John (Coventry NE) | Wallace, James |
| Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Walley, Joan |
| Illsley, Eric | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Ingram, Adam | Watson, Mike (Glasgow, C) |
| Janner, Greville | Welsh, Andrew (Angus E) |
| Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S W) | Williams, Alan W. (Carm'then) |
| Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald | Winnick, David |
| Leighton, Ron | Worthington, Tony |
| Lewis, Terry | Wray, Jimmy |
| Litherland, Robert | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Lloyd, Tony (Stratford) | |
| McAllion, John | Tellers for the Noes: |
| McAvoy, Thomas | Mr. Allen McKay and Mr. Jimmy Dunnachie. |
| McFall, John | |
| McKelvey, William |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Bill read the Third time, and passed.