§ Mr. CorbettI beg to move amendment No. 360, in page 119, line 49, at end insert
but the person providing the programme service will not be required to make available a complete schedule for any one week period more than ten days before the first day of that week'.
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Paul Dean)With this we may take the following amendments: No. 365, in schedule 14, page 196, line 23, leave out 'reasonable' and insert
'not less than three months'.
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No. 366, in schedule 14, page 196, line 27, leave out 'reasonable' and insert
'not less than three months'.
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No. 367, in schedule 14, page 196, line 30, at end insert—
`(c) deposit in a trust account in the names jointly of himself and the owner of the copyright in the information to which this Schedule applies an amount equal to the difference between the amount that would have been payable in the first three months of the licence in accordance with any proposal for terms of payment made pursuant to a request under paragraph 3(1)(a) and the amount which the publisher under paragraph 3(1)(b) has notified he is willing to pay in the first three months of publication, on terms that the owner of the copyright shall be entitled to have recourse to up to the whole of the amount so deposited and any interest thereon in satisfaction of any order of the Copyright Tribunal.'.
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No. 576, in schedule 14, page 196, line 48, at end insert—
'4A.—(1) The requirement in paragraph 4 to make payments, and the requirements in paragraph 3 to give notice, do not apply in relation to any acts which consist only of the publication of the date, time and title of programmes.
§ (2) Where the publisher does any such acts as are mentioned in sub-paragraph (1) he shall (instead of making payments under paragraph 4) pay to the person providing the programme service a fee in respect of the reasonable administrative costs of supplying the information concerned in pursuance of section 164 of this Act.'.
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No. 368, in schedule 14, page 197, line 11, at end insert ', and
(c) where the applicant has been exercising the right conferred by paragraph 4 for a period of not less than three months and no order as to the terms of payment has been made, may if asked to do so by the owner of the copyright in the information to which the Schedule applies order the applicant to deposit such further amount in the trust account as it may determine to be reasonable in the circumstances.'.
§ Mr. CorbettI am afraid that it is not my 50th birthday yet, but the Minister will recall our long discussions in Committee about the way in which the monopoly of the TV listings was to be broken up. Perhaps he will be kind enough to repeat what I think that he was trying to say in his press release of 24 April—that amendments will be introduced in another place which will, among other things, make the change in the monopoly ownership of programme listings in the early part of next year.
§ Mr. GaleI wish to speak briefly to amendment No. 576, which stands in my name.
There is a fear that the provisions in the Bill relating to the purchase of listings from broadcasting companies may lead to unseemly legal wrangling. The amendment seeks to simplify the issue in cases in which only the date, time and nature of the broadcast are involved. No one believes that that information should be provided at a cost to the broadcaster—by implication, secretarial time and effort will be required to provide publishers with such information—hence the second part of the amendment, which seeks to allow a small charge to be made. It would be much simpler to make the date, time and title of a television production available to publishers free of charge.
§ Mr. MaclennanI welcome the Minister's announcement in his press release of 24 April about the detail of the 348 arrangements that he has in mind for ending the "duopoly" in television programme listings. He will recall that in Committee I expressed my concerns, and those of Independent Television Publications Limited, a subsidiary of Reed International plc. I understand that it is gratified by the Minister's proposals, and although they are not entirely ideal for the company it regards them as a fair compromise.
I am also anxious to hear from the Minister whether it is his intention to introduce amendments to the Bill in another place, and what he intends to do about the timing of the transition. The company naturally attaches much importance to that. The Minister's press release spoke of six months after Royal Assent being a reasonable time —a view that is generally accepted. If it is his intention to proceed along those lines, he will have achieved a satisfactory settlement.
§ Mr. MellorThe hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Mr. Corbett) jested about his age. This provoked me, for the first time ever, to look it up. I discoverd with great horror that he is 56 years old, so we had better treasure him while we still have him. I hasten to assure him about the point that was worrying him, lest he overload his heart fretting about it. It is our intention to implement these arrangements about six months after Royal Assent, if that comes in the summer. However, one cannot guarantee that the last stages of the Bill will not go on into the spill-over period, so perhaps I should say within the first three months of the next year.
We have tried to do this sensibly, recognising the interests of the broadcasters, who want to ensure that the details of programmes are not disclosed so early that they can be of commercial use to other broadcasters, while allowing the development of sensible broadcasting magazines and others who could make use of this information.
With respect to my hon. Friend the Member for Thanet, North (Mr. Gale), I do not think that this should be free, because it is copyright material and we should not prevent those holding it from charging for it. Equally, I expect the charges to be relatively modest, and the copyright tribunal will have the right to adjudicate on that.
We have recognised the position of Reed International about which concern was expressed in Committee. It owns the copyright to ITV programmes until 1992, and we have said that it—rather than the broadcasters—can negotiate the fees involved. I discovered that the proprietor of Time Out lashed out—to use the phrase of the popular press —at these arrangements. No one has lashed out at them tonight, for which I am grateful, and I hope that most hon. Members think that they are sensible. Amendments to give effect to them will be introduced in another place.
§ Mr. CorbettI am grateful for much of what the Minister has said, although he has a habit of letting out Corbett family secrets. It has been helpful to have this quick exchange, and, in the light of what the Minister has said, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Amendment made: No. 562, in page 120, line 47, leave out 'programme' and insert 'broadcasting'.—[Mr. Mellor.]