HC Deb 19 March 1990 vol 169 cc876-8
13. Mr. Gwilym Jones

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what action he intends to take against excessive community charges being imposed by Welsh local councils.

Mr. Peter Walker

I am considering what, if any, action to take in the light of the information that I have received on the expenditure plans of Welsh local authorities for 1990–91.

Mr. Jones

My right hon. Friend will be remembered for many splendid achievements dring his time at the Welsh Office. I invite him to be remembered for one more thing—capping Cardiff and South Glamorgan councils. In that way he will be remembered by my constituents as the Secretary of State who stepped in and defended the people of Cardiff against the vicious tax being levied by Cardiff and South Glamorgan councils.

Mr. Walker

Decisions on the future will have to wait until all the final information is received. We do not yet have it all, although we asked for it by this date. I understand my hon. Friend's concern, when expenditure in Cardiff is up 35 per cent. on 1989–90 and 60 per cent. on 1988–89.

Mr. Ron Davies

Does the Secretary of State recall that in July 1988 he made an attack on my constituency Labour party for daring to suggest that the Government's then estimates of the likely poll tax were less than accurate? Now that we have had the figures and those prophesies have come true, my constituents face poll tax bills 30 per cent. higher than the Government's estimates. Before the Secretary of State finally retires from his job will he offer two apologies: first, to the constituency Labour party in Caerphilly for having maligned it and, secondly, to the people of Wales for not having the courage to stand up in Cabinet and oppose a tax which few people supported at the time and nobody supports now?

Mr. Walker

Every time the hon. Gentleman speaks, whether in the Welsh Grand Committee or here, it must give great confidence to the present Labour Chief Whip that he will retain his position. I should be happy to release to the press today the scandalous leaflet issued by the hon. Gentleman and his party, which gave the impression that there would be no rebates, and that the poor, elderly and those on low incomes would be badly hit. In fact, in contrast to that pamphlet, 300,000 people in Wales, many of them in the hon. Gentleman's constituency, who were receiving 100 per cent. rate rebates, will be better off financially under the new system.

Mr. Raffan

Does my right hon. Friend agree that if Clwyd county council had not irresponsibly increased its spending by nearly £15 million and broken its pledge to cut senior and middle management by 10 per cent., the county community charge in Clwyd could have been at least £40 less than the £223 at which it was set?

Mr. Walker

It is important that when examining their community charge, people should compare the current year's expenditure with that of the previous year to see by how much local authorities increased spending over the rate of inflation. That would be an interesting study. Plenty of local authorities are good examples, and others are bad examples. I hope that the electors will examine the expenditure carefully.

Mr. Murphy

Will the Secretary of State give us a straight answer about the poll tax-capping of Welsh local authorities which he threatened a few months ago in the Chamber? Does he intend to poll tax-cap any Welsh council? Does he realise that that is a hollow gesture and that if the local authorities involved are poll tax-capped they will be thrown into administrative and financial chaos?

Mr. Walker

Before increasing its expenditure by 35 per cent., every local authority should consider the implications. It is for the electors to consider the position. The reality is that there are big variations between Labour and Conservative authorities, and between the actions of various Welsh local authorities. I shall examine what must be done when all the final figures have been obtained.

Mr. Nicholas Bennett

Will my right hon. Friend commiserate with the electors of South Pembrokeshire? They have the lowest community charge in Wales, set by their own district council, but Dyfed county council, on which Labour is the largest party, twice increased its community charge after the chairman of the finance committee decided that enough was enough? Does the Secretary of State think that it is time the Labour authorities got their act together and put their own house in order?

Mr. Walker

There is a remarkable comparison between Cardiff city council, at £78, and South Pembrokeshire, at £7. It is important that all who pay the community charge carefully examine where the increased expenditure has been made.