Points of Order (Hansard, 5 March 1990)

Several Hon. Members
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
Oh, dear. I shall take the hon. Member for Langbaurgh (Mr. Holt) first.

§ Mr. Richard Holt (Langbaurgh)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I draw your attention to the current edition of The House Magazine?

§ Mr. Speaker
But I do not have responsibility for that.

§ Mr. Holt
I know that, Sir, but you do have responsibility for your instruction on taxis at the Members' entrance. Consequently, I should like to draw your attention to an article written by Simon Heifer, in which he threatens Members of Parliament. He says that journalists are keeping a "list of offenders" of Members of Parliament who exercise their right to take precedence at the taxi rank.

§ Mr. Speaker
It does not seem to be a matter of great parliamentary moment.

§ Mr. Holt
I am sorry that you, Mr. Speaker, do not see this as important, but then you do not have to queue up for a taxi. The article says that at least one of the journalists is keeping a list of offenders, some of them occasionally look to the press to report uncritically their views on certain important matters. Should they be concerned about the future quality of that reporting, a little less urgency will be required.
There is an order at the Members' entrance in your name, Mr. Speaker, stating that Members will take precedence. In the light of the threat in that article, will you kindly look into this and let us have your views?

Several Hon. Members
rose——

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. There is such a notice. I hardly think that the hon. Member needs my protection in a matter of this kind.

§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker—that one.

§ Mr. Speaker
All right.

§ Mr. Skinner
I think that you could have responded to the hon. Member for Langbaurgh (Mr. Holt), who referred to not being able to get a taxi, by saying that, if he hangs around a little longer, he will find that some ministerial cars are empty. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman makes inquiries of the Secretary of State for Wales and asks the Prime Minister how many more Cabinet Ministers whispered in her ear last September, "Give it a few months—I shall be leaving."

§ Mr. Speaker
There are many things that I might have said to the hon. Member for Langbaurgh (Mr. Holt). The House knows that the Services Committee has reported on this matter and that precedence is indeed given to Members who require a taxi.

§ Mr. Frank Haynes (Ashfield)
Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
It cannot really be further to the point of order.

§ Mr. Haynes
Well it is, Sir.

§ Mr. Speaker
Is it really? Very well.

§ Mr. Haynes
I do not know whether you are aware of the all-party cycling group. I suggest that you tell the hon. Member for Langbaurgh (Mr. Holt) to join it, and get some of that weight off.

§ Mr. Speaker
Good idea.

§ Mr. Anthony Beaumont-Dark (Birmingham, Selly Oak)
May I raise a serious and genuine point of order with you, Mr. Speaker? I know that that sounds unusual. On the proper day laid down for questions to the Department of Trade and Industry, I tabled a question to ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to give the trends in manufacturing industry productivity over the past 12——

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Was the question transferred, or disallowed?

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
It was transferred. None of my questions would be disallowed—all my colleagues know that. I came to the House today in my usual innocent manner and found that my question had been transferred to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I did not mention interest rates, where the Exchequer always likes to get its hand——

§ Mr. Speaker
Order.

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
Surely I can finish my question, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Member must have heard dozens of times——

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
No.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I am sure that the hon. Member has, because he is in the Chamber regularly. This matter has been put to me dozens of times. I have no responsibility for the transfer of questions; that is entirely a matter for the Goverment.

§ Mr. Beaumont-Dark
May I continue once more, Sir? I hate to bore you, but surely you, as Mr. Speaker, are in charge of allowing Members to ask questions of Secretaries of State without them, as in some kind of Russian roulette, changing them so that no one has to answer. If a Secretary of State does not want to answer a question, he can transfer it to someone else, which means that the Member concerned will not have a chance to ask that question for another month. We must have some protection against this transfer system.

§ Mr. Speaker
It has ever been thus. Ministers who believe that they have no responsibility——

§ Mr. Skinner
The hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Mr. Beaumont-Dark) is getting desperate. [Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Perhaps the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak will listen to me, not to Members across the Gangway.
It has always been a fact that Ministers transfer questions if they are not within the responsibility of their 591 Department. I feel sorry for the hon. Member, because this occasionally happened to me, but he must take up his complaint with the Department concerned.

§ Mr. Roland Boyes (Houghton and Washington)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. No doubt it has been reported to you that there was a bit of bother in the Chamber on Friday, because we did not reach the Radiation Exposed Crown Employees (Benefits) Bill, which would have given pensions to veterans who had taken part in nuclear tests. During the filibuster on the Planning Permission (Demolition of Houses) Bill, the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Mr. Summerson) failed early in his speech to declare his interests. It was only after the intervention of about five Opposition Members that the hon. Member said: I shall eventually come on to the part of my speech in which I declare that interest."—[Official Report, 2 March 1990; Vol. 168, c. 551] I then quoted, at column 552, "Erskine May": A Member will normally declare his interest at the beginning of his remarks. Later——

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Member is quite right: I was not present on Friday. However, I always look at Hansard. I see, in column 551, that this very matter was dealt with by Mr. Deputy Speaker. I draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to that; there is nothing more to be done about it now.

§ Mr. Boyes
If an hon. Member, on either side of the House, has an interest to declare, the person in the Chair must at some time determine whether or not that Member has spoken for long enough to have declared his interest. On the basis of Friday's interpretation, a Member could make a one-hour speech and declare an interest only in the 59th minute. Before his declaration, a number of points affecting the whole debate might have been made. "Normally" has to have some specific meaning.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. We cannot go back on this matter. However, later this week there will be a debate on the whole matter of Members' interests. The whole House knows the rule: that if an hon. Member on either side of the House——

§ Mr. Skinner
That debate is about John Browne's body.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The whole House knows that, if a Member has a personal interest to declare, he should always declare it.

§ Mr. Ray Powell (Ogmore)
On a genuine point of order, Mr. Speaker, not a bogus one. It is very relevant, and I am sure that you will be able to give a decision on it. Last Thursday—St. David's day—we debated Welsh affairs for six hours. During that time, the Secretary of State for Wales had an opportunity to announce his impending retirement. Have you, Mr. Speaker, received from the Government any notification concerning a statement regarding——

§ Mr. Speaker
No. I am afraid that points of order do not come much more bogus than that.