Astra (Hansard, 19 June 1990)

§ 9. Mr. Corbyn
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence on what occasions his Department met Astra representatives in the last three years.

§ 10. Mr. Litherland
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence on what occasions his Department met Astra representatives in the last three years.

§ Mr. Alan Clark
Officials of my Department have met Astra representatives on a number of occasions in the past three years.

§ Mr. Corbyn
Will the Minister confirm that officials of his Department knew five months before the public revelations that a super gun for Iraq was being constructed? Does he accept that the main motive of his Ministry at present is to maintain trade and sales with Iraq in order to finance the re-equipment of that country's armed forces, despite Iraq's use of chemical weapons against Kurdish people in Iraq and its appalling human rights record? Does the Minister not believe that a proper relationship with the Government of Iraq would be no trade, no aid and no deals while the present repression continues against people in Iraq?

§ Mr. Clark
The hon. Gentleman is notorious for the company he keeps, so I am surprised that he should be so fastidious about who meets whom—[Interruption.] I know that the House will be irritated by this, but I fear that I have to say that, in the light of charges laid against individuals and in the light of the continuing investigation by Customs and Excise, it would be inappropriate for me to comment further on those matters.

§ Mr. Litherland
The Minister gives no sign of shock or shame although he must have known that Astra executives informed British intelligence and the Ministry of Defence a long time before action was taken. Does not that smack of gross negligence? If there is anything to be fired, I hope that it will not be the gun, but the stupid, incompetent Ministers involved in this mess.

§ Mr. Clark
I am sorry, but I must refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer that I have already given.

§ Mr. Dickens
Will my hon. Friend explain why the Member for Islington, North (Mr. Corbyn) who posed that question is so—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I am not sure that that is the Minister's responsibility.

§ Mr. Dickens
Why did the hon. Gentleman pose the question about the gun in Iraq when last week, when there was a bomb in Islington, he left the Chamber before the question and returned afterwards?

§ Mr. Clark
rose——

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I do not think that that has anything to do with the Minister.

§ Mr. Corbyn
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
This all takes time. What is the point of order?

§ Mr. Corbyn
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it in order for the hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Dickens) to make statements that he knows to be untrue?

§ Mr. Speaker
The House and the hon. Gentleman know that we have freedom of speech in this Chamber. The hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Dickens) must take responsibility for what he said.

§ Mr. Bell
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The parliamentary record in Hansard will reflect the views of the hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Dickens). If his remarks were inaccurate, as my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, North (Mr. Corbyn) has said that they were, he should be asked to withdraw them.

§ Mr. Speaker
Every hon. Member must take responsibility for what he says in this Chamber. What the hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Dickens) said was a personal view, but it is not a matter of order.

§ Mr. Rogers
My question is quite separate from the big gun issue, so the Minister cannot plead sub judice in his answer.
What orders have been placed with Astra by International Military Services, a wholly-owned MOD subsidiary, for export to the middle east, and were those orders authorised by the Prime Minister's office?

§ Mr. Clark
Orders placed by my Department are commercially in confidence.