Welsh Language (Hansard, 16 July 1990)

§ 7. Mr. Nicholas Bennett
To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what recent representations he has received about Welsh language teaching.

12. Mr. Alan W. Williams
To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what recent representations he has received concerning the use of the Welsh language in primary schools in Dyfed.

§ The Minister of State, Welsh Office (Sir Wyn Roberts)
We have received 27 representations about the use of the Welsh language in primary schools in Dyfed since June 1989.

§ Mr. Bennett
Does my hon. Friend agree that the best way to encourage Welsh language and culture is through a sensible, balanced and moderate policy which does not involve compelling parents to accept it? Does he also agree that the best way of ensuring freedom of choice for my constituents would be to allow generous exemptions from compulsory Welsh in secondary schools and to look again at the categorisation policy in some primary schools in Dyfed which means that some children are immersed in Welsh at the age of five without the opportunity of learning their mother tongue of English?

§ Sir Wyn Roberts
The word "compulsion" is anathema to me, as it is to my hon. Friend. He must recognise that in schooling there is an element of compulsion to learn school subjects. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has consulted on exemptions from Welsh in the national curriculum. He is considering the results of that consultation and we shall make an announcement in due course. Categorisation of schools in Dyfed is primarily a matter for the local education authority.

Mr. Williams
Does the Minister agree that every child has a right to an education in its mother tongue as far as reasonably possible? Does he realise that in Dyfed since last September, when, without consulting parents, the local authority made all schools in rural areas Welsh speaking, thousands of English-speaking infants have been deprived of the right to an education in their mother tongue?

§ Sir Wyn Roberts
It is important to understand what happened in Dyfed. Under the Education (No. 2) Act 1986—not the Education Reform Act 1988—the local education authority is required to state its policy on secular education. I understand that consultations have been held with the governors of about 333 primary schools 669 and that only two changes were proposed. There will be consultation with parents during the summer and in the early autumn.

§ Mr. Gwilym Jones
Will my hon. Friend confirm that the row in Dyfed has more to do with county policy than with the Education (No. 2) Act or the national curriculum?

§ Sir Wyn Roberts
Yes, it is precisely as my hon. Friend says. The dispute arises from the county's policy, which is geared to the 1986 Act. It is an independent authority, but I understand that 27 of its members belong to the party of the hon. Member for Carmarthen (Mr. Williams).

§ Mr. Geraint Howells
Does the Minister agree that it was a great shame that the hon. Members. for Pembroke (Mr. Bennett) and for Carmarthen (Mr. Williams) interfered with the teaching of Welsh in one of my schools in north Pembrokeshire? The parents of 50 out of 56 children at that school are in favour of the present policy. Will the Minister advise those two hon. Gentlemen to behave themselves and to act like statesmen?

§ Sir Wyn Roberts
I understand that the parents concerned in one school are the constituents of my hon. Friend the Member for Pembroke (Mr. Bennett). Surely the House is not averse to right hon. and hon. Members stating their views or those of their constituents. We are here to try to resolve any difficulties that may arise.

§ Mr. Budgen
Is my hon. Friend aware that his answers about the Welsh language will cause dismay and confusion in Wolverhampton? A separate language is a clear sign of distinct racial characteristics, and my hon. Friend's answers, allied with the revelation that members of the Cabinet have been considering the distinct racial characteristics of the German race, flies in the face of all that the people of Wolverhampton have been taught for 25 years by successive Governments and by the race relations industry—that there are no such things as racial characteristics.

§ Sir Wyn Roberts
Listening to my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Mr. Budgen), I wished that his predecessor as Member of Parliament for that constituency were here, because he was a distinguished Welsh scholar. I cannot agree with my hon. Friend that linguistic differences are the same as racial differences. After all, I can proudly boast that I speak Welsh and German, and I have a smattering of English.