§ 10. Mr. DouglasTo ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the effect of changes in rebates for poll tax recently announced on the level of the poll tax in 1990–91.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonChanges that have been made to the community charge, including the transitional relief scheme and the widening of the exemption for people who are severely mentally impaired, should have had virtually no effect on the community charge levels determined by local authorities for 1990–91.
§ Mr. DouglasNo matter how much the Minister and the Government tinker with this charge—the poll tax—it represents an onerous and unfair burden on the poorer 303 sections of the population. Those of us who seek to stand by those people, by withholding our payments, represent a very respectable tradition in Scottish democracy. We are in the season of Burns and I should like to paraphrase the great man. I put to the Government: "They'd break our backs for Maggie's tax, Such a parcel of rogues in a nation." The Government's policy will destroy the Union because the people of Scotland will not accept this unfair, unjust and undemocratic tax for which they did not vote.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonRobert Burns was an excise man and knew all about tax.
§ Mr. Douglasrose—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman must contain himself. [Interruption.] The Minister was quite in order in what he said.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonThe hon. Gentleman complains about the warrant sales system. I stress to the House that when the reform of the law—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) must not barrack the Minister.
§ Mr. Douglasrose—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman must sit down.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonWhen the law reforming warrant sales went through the House in the last Parliament, neither the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) nor any Opposition Member voted against that legislation which removed the most objectionable features of the system. The hon. Gentleman spoke about unfairness. It was monstrously unfair when only 40 per cent, paid rates and that system could not possibly endure. The hon. Gentleman overlooks the fact that well over 1 million people in Scotland are receiving rebates which are of great assistance to them. The reforms on transitional relief should in due course benefit up to 500,000 people.
§ Mr. GowIs not the system of rebates for the community charge considerably more generous than the rebates for the old system of domestic rates?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder.
§ Mr. GowIs my noble Friend aware that many of us would like him to answer questions more frequently than he does?
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonI can tell my hon. Friend that those on income support receive 80 per cent, rebate and that their income support has been increased to take account of the fact that they have to pay the other 20 per cent. There have been reforms, and when anomalies arise we shall take steps to make sure that they are ironed out and removed, as we have done with difficulties arising for people with Alzheimer's disease.
§ Mr. MaxtonWill the Minister confirm that the transitional relief scheme that the Government introduced with great publicity last year will help only 10 per cent. of poll tax payers in Scotland and that the average rate per qualifier will be £25 a year or 50p a week? Was it not all 304 just one massive con trick designed to delude the people of Scotland into believing that the poll tax was fair? Does he appreciate that the only way in which he can help the poor in Scotland is to get rid of the iniquitous 20 per cent. minimum payment as the first step towards getting rid of this grossly unfair tax?
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonThe fact that up to 500,000 people will benefit is not something to be sneered at in any respect. Labour Members should set an example by paying the community charge rather than saying that they will defy the law.