Teachers' Pay (Hansard, 27 February 1990)

§ 1. Mr. Haynes
To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on the progress towards setting up new collective bargaining arrangements for teachers.

§ The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. John MacGregor)
I held a series of constructive meetings with the teacher unions and employers towards the end of last year. I am considering carefully the points put to me, and will make a further statement as soon as I am in a position to do so.

§ Mr. Haynes
That is not good enough. I want a firm commitment from the Secretary of State on whether the settlement in 1991 for teachers will be reached only by negotiations between the teachers and the employers. I want to know today—not next week or later, but today.

§ Mr. MacGregor
I am sure that the hon. Gentleman makes his points very loudly and forcefully to the teaching unions. If he does, he will know that they are divided about the right way forward for the long-term pay machinery. That is one difficulty preventing us from reaching a conclusion on the matter. I assure the hon. Gentleman that I am aiming—I hope that agreement will be reached on this for next year—to replace the interim advisory committee by a long-term arrangement.

§ Mr. Pawsey
Does my right hon. Friend agree that we do not want son of Burnham, or Burnham mark II, or any of that nonsense? Does he agree that we want improvements in pay matched by improvements in professionalism in the teaching service? We need a well-motivated, well-trained teaching force which can impart a love of learning to the nation's children.

§ Mr. MacGregor
I agree with my hon. Friend on both points. On the first point, I think that Burnham now has very few friends. There seems to be general agreement that 122 we do not want to return to that system. Difficulties arise because there are divided views about what should replace it.
On the second point, I hope that my hon. Friend will agree that my immediate acceptance of the interim advisory committee's report on teachers' pay, with its far-reaching recommendations, will help to provide a better career structure for teachers. I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of professionalism among teachers. It is extremely important, and I know that the vast majority of teachers set store by it.

§ Mr. Simon Hughes
What is the Secretary of State waiting for? Does he realise that the sooner he announces a date for meetings with the unions—given that there has been no meeting since November—the sooner the confidence of the profession will be restored? Many teachers are unhappy, as he well knows, with the 7.3 per cent. or, according to his figures, 8.3 per cent. increase. Teachers are not responding by coming back in shortage areas, and they will do so only when they know that they can put their case, the Secretary of State can put his, and there will be proper discussions and agreement about what they should be paid. What is he waiting for?

§ Mr. MacGregor
The first thing was to get the April 1990 settlement out of the way. We have still to do that, as the hon. Gentleman knows, because I am still consulting teacher unions and employers on the interim advisory committee's recommendations. I have accepted those excellent recommendations, and I hope that they will, too, because I believe that they will make considerable improvements to the structure and the overall position of teachers' pay. The next stage is to continue discussions on long-term machinery, and I hope before too long to be able to embark on the necessary round of meetings on that. But we must get the discussions on next year's settlement out of the way.