§ Mr. Cranley Onslow (Woking)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will remember that during Question Time today there was an unusual amount of disorderly noise. In the course of one of the quieter moments during that noise, the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Kaufman) made a grossly offensive remark about my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I must hear this, because I did not hear the remark that is alleged to have been made.
§ Mr. OnslowIt was clearly heard on the Conservative Benches, I suspect it may have been heard on the tapes, but I wonder whether you heard it, Mr. Speaker. If you did, it seems to me that it is a remark which you should invite the right hon. Gentleman to withdraw.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I have already said that I did not hear it, so I cannot call upon the right hon. Gentleman to withdraw it. I do not know what he said.
I hope that the House will reflect carefully on the disorderly way in which Prime Minister's Question Time proceeded today. The cut and thrust of debate is one thing, and the whole House subscribes to that, but noise and disruptions of the kind that we have heard today bring no credit upon us. Certainly personal abuse of any kind is not in the tradition of the Chamber.
§ Mr. Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton)As a courtesy to the House, Mr. Speaker, may I notify you that the Opposition have decided to make a change in the business for the Opposition day tomorrow. We shall now start with a debate on Government policy on South Africa. That will proceed until 7 pm, and we shall then take the business already announced, which is a debate on rail fares and services.
§ Mr. SpeakerI call Mr. Quentin Davies—[Interruption.] Order. I hope that tomorrow's debate will proceed in better order.
§ Mr. Quentin Davies (Stamford and Spalding)Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I hope that I may be able to help you. I distinctly heard the hon. Member for—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. We cannot go back to what was said at Question Time. I did not hear what was said; everyone else may have, but it did not come through my amplifier. Nor did I hear what the Prime Minister is alleged to have said earlier, which caused so much disruption in the Chamber.
I think that we should reflect on the fact that we are now seen on television. Scenes of the kind that we witnessed this afternoon, which will have been seen and heard by television viewers, bring no credit on us.
§ Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I have received a most courteous letter from the Editor of Hansard pointing out that last night's Hansard reported, in column 117, that Mr. Colin Wallace had been acquitted in 1971. It should have read "convicted in 1981". 154 The Minister of State for the Armed Forces has most courteously come to the Chamber to hear me make the correction.
The Ministry of Defence has considerable resources. It employs people to correct Ministers' speeches, unlike Back Benchers on boths sides of the House. Such carelessness is symptomatic of this whole affair, and is entirely unacceptable to the House of Commons.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Gentleman has raised the matter in the best traditions of the House. I, too, have received a copy of the letter from the Editor of Hansard, in which the Editor—again, in the best traditions—takes responsibility for the error.
§ The Minister of State for the Armed Forces (Mr. Archie Hamilton)Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry that the error was not picked up, and I am grateful to the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) for his remarks. I am also grateful to the Editor of the Official Report. Perhaps I did not speak clearly enough.
§ Sir William Clark (Croydon, South)Further to the point of order raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Mr. Onslow), Mr. Speaker. I understand that the remark made by the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Kaufman) was heard on television; it was certainly heard on both sides of the House, although I accept that you may not have heard it. The right hon. Gentleman implied that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister should have spent 27 years in prison. Although you did not hear the remark, Mr. Speaker, do you not agree that that is unparliamentary language and that the right hon. Gentleman should withdraw it?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe House knows that I have no power to have such statements withdrawn. Let me say that I hope that we can proceed without personal abuse.
§ Mr. Quentin DaviesFurther to that point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I do not think that it can be further to that point of order. In any case, I called the hon. Gentleman during Question Time.
§ Mr. Peter Hardy (Wentworth)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I seek your assistance and advice on a matter of grave importance in my constituency? More than 2,700 drums of contaminated waste have been dumped in my constituency, and a smaller quantity of the same consignment has been dumped in the constituency of my right hon. Friend the Member for Morley and Leeds, South (Mr. Rees). A number of my hon. Friends, some of whose constituencies are close to mine an in close proximity to the material—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. This point of order is addressed to me. [ Interruption.] This is exactly what I was talking about a few moments ago. If Members continue to barrack—for that is what they are doing—it is impossible to hear the point of order being raised with me. What is the hon. Gentleman's point of order?
§ Mr. HardyThe waste has been with us a long time, but not for 27 years, which might be attractive to Conservative Members.
§ Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman (Lancaster)It is not a point of order.
§ Mr. HardyIt is a point of order, as I shall show. Conservative Members are not particularly interested in areas like ours, but I hope that they will listen to this serious point.
A number of my hon. Friends, led by my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley, (Mr. Redmond) tabled an early-day motion in the House last week as a means of expressing the anger and frustration that is felt in our constituencies because this waste has been with us far too long. As a symbol of the frustration and anger that we have faced, having had to put up with this waste which should not be in our area—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I read the early-day motion on the Order Paper. If the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that this waste should be brought down here—
§ Mr. SpeakerIf it is suggested that this waste should be deposited in the House of Commons, I should take a poor view of it.
§ Mr. HardyMy hon. Friend's motion suggests that, as a symbol of our rage and frustration, and as evidence of the inadequacy and poverty of British regulations, one of the drums should be brought to the Palace of Westminster, and I merely wanted to ask you where I should put it, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I think I have made my views plain on that. I hope that the hon. Member will do no such thing.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I am on my feet, and it has always been the tradition that when the Speaker is on his feet he is heard.
We have an important debate today on public expenditure, and a large number of right hon. and hon. Members wish to participate in it. There is also a ten-minute Bill motion which will take time out of the debate. I cannot have a continuation of Question Time. What was said at Question Time was said. I think that it was the worst Prime Minister's Question Time that it has been my unhappy duty to preside over. I ask the House to reflect and to ensure that we do not have a repetition of it.
§ Mr. Dave Nellist (Coventry, South-East)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Do you agree that the main problem during Prime Minister's Question Time was that five or six minutes of answers on two separate questions would have 156 been better given as a statement in calm so that everyone could have asked questions? Given that I and many of my hon. Friends think that, will you accept a request from me to ask a private notice question demanding a statement from the Prime Minister on the Government's policy on sanctions against South Africa?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The time for private notice questions has passed. We are to have a debate on the subject tomorrow. I shall take one more question from the chairman of the 1922 committee [Interruption.] Order. I decide who is called. [Interruption.] Behaviour of this kind from Front-Bench spokesmen is a terrible disgrace.
§ Mr. OnslowFurther to my original point of order and your response, Mr. Speaker. There is something very unsatisfactory about the situation in which the House finds itself. It seems that it is possible—I am not sure whether this is the first time that it has happened—for things to be said loudly in the Chamber by certain hon. Members, above and below the Gangway, which are heard clearly by Conservative Members, and can be heard outside the House but cannot be heard by you, Mr. Speaker. If the microphones are at fault, can you please tell the House what action you will be putting in hand to put the matter right? It cannot be satisfactory for order to be maintained on the basis that disorderly things are said and people get away with it.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe right hon. Gentleman has been here a long time and he should know that, when an hon. Member has been called by the Chair to speak or to put a question, remarks from a sedentary position are not a proceeding of Parliament and such remarks are not shown in Hansard. [ Interruption.] Order. The right hon. Gentleman had better look up the rules. [Interruption.] I cannot be held responsible for such things. I do not know quite what the right hon. Gentleman is alleging, but I have a microphone in the wings of my chair and can hear very clearly the hon. Member who has been called to speak from his or her microphone. It is impossible under that system to hear what then goes on on the other side of he House.
§ Mr. SpeakerNo, I will not take any more points of order.
§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I will sort it out for you.
§ Mr. SpeakerI do not need it to be sorted out by the hon. Gentleman. I think that we have had enough of this and should proceed to the ten-minute Bill motion.