§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Before taking points of order—and of course I must take them—I remind hon. Members that we have yet to come a debate on the budget of the European Communities, which must end at 7 o'clock. If we had not had that constraint on us, I might have allowed the private notice question to run somewhat longer. But I must have regard to the business before the House.
§ Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate your problem. The Government did not seek to make a statement today on the NHS trusts and you granted a private notice question to the Opposition, my hon. Friends and I thank you for doing so. My point of order is simple. Throughout the country, 55 hospitals have been stolen from the national health service and have been handed over to hospital managements so that they can make a great deal of money. The damage that will be done——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. That may be the case, but it is a matter of argument and not a matter of order for me.
§ Mr. CorbynMy point of order——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to raise a point of order, he must raise one that I can answer.
§ Mr. CorbynMy point of order, Mr. Speaker, is simply to ask when we shall have a proper statement on the subject and when we shall be able to debate the whole issue, so that the opposition to this crazy move can be voiced by the elected representatives in the House?
§ Mr. SpeakerI do not know, because that is not a point of order either. But I hope that there will be a debate, because it is certainly a major matter.
§ Mr. Tim Devlin (Stockton, South)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. We were delighted to see two new hon. Members introduced today, but it will not have escaped your notice that their combined electorates are lower than mine and those of many other Conservative Members. Would it be in order for you to arrange that secretarial allowances paid to hon. Members representing well populated constituencies are double those of Scottish Members?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is a matter for the Leader of the House. I suggest that the hon. Member's point would be an admirable one to put to the Leader of the House on Thursday.
§ Mr. Harry Ewing (Falkirk, East)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I have called the hon. Gentleman once.
§ Mr. Gerald Bermingham (St. Helens, South)On a helpful point of order, Mr. Speaker. When there is raised in the House an issue such as that raised today, which affects the constituencies of many hon. Members—including mine, which loses two hospitals and, in due course, its community services—it might be somewhat fairer if hon. Members from the various areas affected 197 were called by you area by area. We on Merseyside seem always to suffer from the Liverpool syndrome. You always call an hon. Member from Liverpool, but there are many more of us on Merseyside than there are from Liverpool.
§ Mr. SpeakerI appreciate what the hon. Gentleman says, and perhaps he will come and have a quiet word with me one day, when he might care to tell me, for example, who today he thinks I might have cut out so that he might have been called instead.
§ Mr. Tony Lloyd (Stretford)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You are obviously well aware of the importance of today's private notice question and of the importance of the House as a means by which I, as an hon. Member, can defend my constituents who are genuinely uncertain about whether they will have a national health service hospital to which they can refer their medical needs. I appreciate that you are not in a position to discuss requests from Ministers, but when a matter is sufficiently important that it should be dealt with by way of a statement—which would give you the opportunity to allow questions on the issue to continue for longer—is it possible for you to take that fact into account in the amount of time that you allocate to private notice questions?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is precisely what I did. A private notice question is normally an extension of Question Time, as the House knows. I would not normally allow such a question to continue for more than 15 to 20 minutes. Today, it continued for nearly 50 minutes, so I did take into account the very point that the hon. Member raises.
§ Mr. Robert Litherland (Manchester, Central)Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. There is a strong feeling that, unwittingly, you may have made a geographical error——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. That is not a point of order. I am human and I am sure that I make many errors. I am very sorry if the hon. Member was not called.
§ Mr. LitherlandI raise this point of order, Mr. Speaker, not simply on my behalf but because no hon. Members representing north-west constituencies were called, yet three major hospitals in Manchester, including those affecting the constituents of my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Withington (Mr. Bradley) are to go. Neither my hon. Friend nor I was called, although we wanted to make protestations about there not having been any consultations on the subject. It is clear that a short statement did not do the subject justice.
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is as may be.
§ Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West)Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps I can be of assistance. If one examines the list of hospital trusts, one notices that no fewer than 13 of them are in London. It might assist you, Mr. Speaker, if you were cogniscant of the fact that I am the chair of the London group and that my colleagues are happy for me to speak on behalf of London, should I be called.
§ Mr. SpeakerI do not know whether all the hon. Member's colleagues would absolutely agree about that. They have never seemed to agree in the past. I understand that the hon. Gentleman is now a Front-Bench spokesman. It is difficult being a Front-Bench spokesman and the chair of the London group as well.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Gentleman wears two hats.
§ Mr. Harry EwingI apologise for raising another point of order, Mr. Speaker, and I do not apologise for raising it, albeit in the absence of the hon. Member for Stockton, South (Mr. Devlin), who raised a point of order and then left. I should be grateful if you would say that you seriously deprecate hon. Members in any part of the House referring to new hon. Members in the disparaging terms that the hon. Member for Stockton, South used. For such comments to be made about two new colleagues who have just taken their seats is an undesirable practice, which should be deprecated.
§ Mr. SpeakerWhat the hon. Member for Stockton, South (Mr. Devlin) said was not out of order. The House itself has a way of dealing with matters of that kind.
§ Mr. Keith Bradley (Manchester, Withington)Further to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Central (Mr. Litherland), Mr. Speaker. May I inform you that the only hospitals in the whole of the north-west region that are opting out are in Manchester—in central Manchester and, in my constituency, the Christie hospital? May I suggest that in any future debate on this issue you recognise hon. Members who were not called this afternoon, and in particular that you recognise the essential nature of Christie hospital, not only as a local hospital but as a centre of national excellence for cancer care? I hope that you will bear that in mind in any future debate on opting out.
§ Mr. SpeakerI undertake to do that. I must remind the House that it is extremely difficult for the Chair, because I received the answer to the private notice question at the same time as the Minister rose to his feet to give it. It contained a long list of hospitals. It is an impossible task to expect the Chair to look down such a list and also to look out for hon. Members. I do my best, but I am sorry that I was not able to call the hon. Member and some of his hon. Friends.
§ Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Port Glasgow)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I seek your guidance on the question of calling hon. Members when statements are made? I have no complaint, because I do reasonably well——
§ Mr. CorbynVery well.
§ Dr. GodmanI accept my hon. Friend's correction; I do very well. I thought that there was a rule to the effect that Front Benchers who hop on to the Back Benches to ask questions are kept to the end of the queue, where they should be, and that genuine Back Benchers are called first.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Gentleman was a distinguished member of the Opposition Front Bench some time ago. I think that the time an hon. Member is called does not really matter, so long as he or she is able to ask his or her question.
§ Mr. Kenneth Hind (Lancashire, West)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I seek your guidance on a matter that is concerning me. Numerous Opposition Members have stood up in prime television time and said that the hospitals on the list, one of which is on the fringes of my 199 constituency, are leaving the NHS. They know that that is not true. It causes the public who are watching much anxiety.
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is not a point of order for me. What is the point of order? I called the hon. Gentleman, did I not?
§ Mr. HindNo, you did not. The public and the House are being misled about something that is blatantly not true. Therefore——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. This is not the moment to pursue that point. These are matters of major argument and debate. The House should have a debate at some stage, I hope fairly soon. The Leader of the House will have heard what has been said, and I hope that we may have good news about it on Thursday.
§ Mr. CorbynOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerNot again.
§ Mr. CorbynYes.
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is very selfish of the hon. Gentleman. He has been called once on a point of order. He must have consideration for others who wish to participate in the debate on the European Communities budget. Is it a point of order? The last one was not.
§ Mr. CorbynYes. I want to clarify what you said in your answer to my hon. Friends the Members for Greenock and Port Glasgow (Dr. Godman) and for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks) about Front-Bench spokesmen who seek to raise points on a statement or a private notice question. Do they get priority over Back Benchers or not?
§ Mr. SpeakerI take into consideration many things, such as the range of Back Benchers' opportunities. The hon. Gentleman is not in any sense a deprived citizen.
§ Mr. CorbynI am not on the Front Bench.
§ Mr. SpeakerNo, but the hon. Gentleman is regularly called, not once a day but often several times a day. He must have consideration for Front-Bench colleagues, who do not always get as many opportunities as he gets.