§ 6. Mr. Alex CarlileTo ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many houses for rent were built in 1989 in districts in Clwyd, Dyfed, Gwynedd and Powys.
§ Mr. CarlileDoes the Minister agree that that is an abominably low figure? Does he share the experience of most Welsh Members of young people coming into their surgeries week after week who are unable to find anywhere to rent? Does he agree that that is because of the Government's starved housing policies for Wales?
§ Mr. GristThe housing expenditure of the hon. and learned Gentleman's own council last year was about 74 per cent. higher than its spending in the preceding year. That is somewhat dubious starving. We have increased the provision for Housing for Wales to over £100 million. We increased its provision by 20 per cent. last year and by 19 per cent. the year before. We expect that, with private funding and local authorities joining in with finance, about 711 £140 million will be available for housing provision. That will result in more than 3,000 new houses. That is not starving the housing of Wales.
§ Mr. AndersonRather than trying to delude the House by quoting small percentage increases on low bases, should not the Minister look honestly at the almost total collapse of public provision for housing in Wales over the past decade from its previous high level? He should also look at the resulting social effects in terms of homelessness and the agony suffered by the young people whom the hon. and learned Member for Montgomery (Mr. Carlile) described.
§ Mr. GristWe are giving money through the housing associations via Housing for Wales precisely because we see the need for housing in the difficult areas that the hon. Gentleman described where social provision is required. But we believe that most people in Wales, as has been proved, prefer to own their own houses. We are doing our best to make that possible for every citizen. I recommend the latest moves in mid-Wales with flexi-housing. Meanwhile, we have increased home ownership in Wales from about 59 per cent. to over 70 per cent. That is what the people of Wales want, where they can get it.
§ Mr. MurphyDoes the Minister accept that the sum he has mentioned for Housing for Wales, Tai Cymru, is wholly derisory? It represents an average of only 30 new houses a year for each district in Wales. Does he accept that the Government, and especially the Welsh Office, are extremely anxious to avoid letting local authorities deal with the problems of housing? Does he also accept that the housing crisis in Wales is severe, with 70,000 people on housing waiting lists? Does he accept that, even on his own figures, 7,000 people are homeless?
§ Mr. GristI certainly accept that there are difficulties in housing. I do not deny that for a moment. The hon. Gentleman is a former councillor of some note and if he really believes in waiting lists, he is misleading his colleagues.
§ Mr. John MarshallHow many empty council houses are there in Wales? Is not a major cause of homelessness in the United Kingdom the huge stock of empty council houses owned by Labour councils?
§ Mr. GristMy hon. Friend is absolutely right, although I acquit most Welsh councils of that behaviour. Nevertheless, throughout the United Kingdom as a whole, the number of empty homes would cope with the number of homeless several times over.