HC Deb 24 April 1990 vol 171 cc151-2
15. Mr. Ron Brown

To ask the Secretary of State for Employment how many individuals under the age of 21 years are currently being trained under Government-sponsored schemes; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Howard

There are about 371,500 trainees on YTS and about 6,200 on community industry. They are all under the age of 21. In addition, 656,000 young people are being educated and trained in the 29 inner-city compacts and the 3,000 schools and colleges involved in the technical and vocational education initiative. I have no information on the number of the 210,000 people on employment training who are under 21.

Mr. Brown

Is not it clear that cheap labour schemes are no substitute for fully fledged apprenticeships? Is not it time that the Secretary of State learnt the lesson of West Germany, which believes in that system? Is not it time that he responded to the needs of this country? Will he meet the Trades Union Congress and the Scottish Trades Union Congress, and indeed the Amalgamated Engineering Union, to discuss this matter, which is one of the most pressing issues in the country? Unless the Government invest in people, they invest in nothing.

Mr. Howard

These are not cheap labour schemes. They provide high-quality training and the sooner that the Opposition recognise that instead of denigrating and opposing every initiative that is taken to improve training, the better we shall all be.

Mr. Ian Bruce

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the guarantee that training is of good quality for those under 21 is that employers are willing to invest their own money in the training? If they were not willing to do that, it would show that the training was not of good quality.

Mr. Howard

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have seen a spectacular increase in the extent to which employers contribute to the cost of training, especially of young people, and we expect that increase to continue.

Dr. Reid

Has the Minister or any of his colleagues had the opportunity to study the Scottish Trades Union Congress youth committee report on YTS, which was presented to the STUC last week? Is he aware that that report illustrates that three out of four people leave YTS before the end of the scheme, that the training content is normally derisory and that the scheme has led to the abolition of apprenticeships in industry? Is it not about time that the Minister listened to those with real experience of the workings of YTS and tried to remedy the major defects in the scheme?

Mr. Howard

I have not seen the report that the hon. Gentleman mentions, but it is completely at variance with the fact that 80 per cent. of those who complete their training on YTS go into jobs or further training. The hon. Gentleman should bear that in mind, because it is a tribute to the efficacy and success of YTS.