HC Deb 24 April 1990 vol 171 cc159-62 3.31 pm
Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it not a tradition of this House that, when the Government are represented in matters such as ANZAC day, invitations are extended to the Official Opposition party of the day? Why was that not done?

Mr. Speaker

I am not aware that the House is being represented and therefore that is not a matter for me.

Mr. Eric S. Heifer (Liverpool, Walton)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The Prime Minister made the point that we—[HON. MEMBERS: "Can't hear."]—ought to get the facts in relation to what is happening in relation to the so-called gun for Iraq. How can we get the facts when the Secretary of State concerned refused to answer questions in this House on the basis that there might be or could be or possibly would be a court case pending? You said, Mr. Speaker, that there was no question of sub judice. How can we put questions about getting the facts when the Secretary of State concerned refuses to answer questions? How can we put it to the Government when they are not prepared to give us the answers?

Mr. Speaker

How the Secretary of State answers questions is a matter for him. The content of his answers is not a matter for me.

Mr. Michael Latham (Rutland and Melton)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry to have to return to a matter which other hon. Members have raised. However, the first half minute of the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heifer) was almost entirely inaudible on the Conservative Benches. The question of the microphones must be addressed as a matter of emergency.

Mr. Speaker

I believe that there is a written answer on that matter today in Hansard.

Mrs. Maria Fyfe (Glasgow, Maryhill)

I seek your advice on a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Among the many amendments which the House will debate tonight, several have not been selected—

Mr. Speaker

Order. May I stop the hon. Lady there? That is not a matter for me. When the House is in Committee, the hon. Lady should raise the matter with the Chairman of Ways and Means when he takes the Chair. I do not select amendments for Committee stages of Bills.

Mrs. Alice Mahon (Halifax)

On a different point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it in order for the Secretary of State for the Environment to go to a constituency without informing the relevant Member? Are you aware, Mr. Speaker, that the Secretary of State for the Environment visited my constituency today? He sneaked in unannounced and issued a press release excusing his poll tax capping of Calderdale.

Mr. Speaker

Certainly it is a convention of the House that, when we go to the constituencies of other hon. Members, we always inform them. We have a very heavy day in front of us.

Several hon. Members

rose——

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Wilson.

Mr. Brian Wilson (Cunninghame, North)

rose——

Mr. Donald Thompson (Calder Valley)

On a point of order——

Mr. Speaker

Order. I have called Mr. Wilson.

Mr. Wilson

I genuinely seek your guidance, Mr. Speaker. It is a recognised fact, which has been written and commented on, that on several occasions, wholly inadvertently, the Prime Minister misled the House because——

Hon. Members

Order.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I hope that the word was "inadvertent".

Mr. Wilson

It was definitely "inadvertent". I am referring to poverty statistics. The Prime Minister repeatedly—and, I have no doubt, in good faith—came to the Dispatch Box and quoted statistics that, it has now been accepted, were diametrically wrong. The corrected statistics have appeared in Hansard in answer to a written question. However, Ministers came repeatedly to the Dispatch Box and used the figures to boast that the rate of economic improvement of the poorest in this country was twice the national average. Now that this has been diametrically denied by the Department concerned, surely Ministers, including the Prime Minister, who used the false statistics are obliged to come to retract them.

Mr. Speaker

I cannot advise the hon. Gentleman on such procedural matters. He must find other ways of dealing with it.

Rev. Ian Paisley (Antrim, North)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Donald Thompson

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

This is getting contagious.

Mr. Thompson

I apologise for intervening, Mr. Speaker, but, as a result of the accoustics of the House, I did not hear you call the hon. Member for Cunninghame, North (Mr. Wilson).

Further to the point of order made by the hon. Member for Halifax (Mrs. Mahon), is it not right and proper that those who call themselves shadow Ministers should inform us when they visit our constituencies?

Several Hon. Members

rose——

Mr. Speaker

Order. Let us always stick to the conventions of the House, which are of long standing. We should always as a matter of courtesy inform hon. Members if we go to their constituencies.

Several Hon. Members

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

I call Dr. Cunningham.

Dr. John Cunningham (Copeland)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The High Court has just announced that it has agreed that the 21 poll tax-capped Labour local authorities have the right to have the decision of the Secretary of State for the Environment reconsidered and examined by judicial review. As the matter is related to the subject down for debate tomorrow, and as in this case, unlike the fiasco of the Iraqi gun, a case is proceeding, is it in order for the subject to be discussed tomorrow, and can we expect Ministers to answer questions on it?

Mr. Roger Knapman (Stroud)

rose——

Mr. Jerry Hayes (Harlow)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I should need to look carefully at the Opposition motion to decide that matter. I was not previously aware of what the hon. Gentleman has said. As a general principle, I believe that it would be in order for him to proceed, bearing in mind that he should not mention anything that is sub judice. It seems to have been a rather lucky choice.

Mr. Hayes

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Surely all that the High Court has done is give leave for a determination of the facts; it has not as yet determined any facts.

Mr. Speaker

I have already told the House that I have no knowledge of the matter. I shall need to look into it.

Mr. Andrew Rowe (Mid-Kent)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, 650 unsolicited and unwanted boxes were delivered to the House. I believe that such——

Mr. Speaker

Order. We dealt with that matter yesterday.

Mr. Rowe

But I am raising a totally different point.

Mr. Speaker

How different can it possibly be?

Mr. Rowe

I believe that such deliveries constitute a serious security risk. It is highly likely that they could put us all in danger. In any event, are you satisfied——

Mr. Speaker

Order. It is the same point. I said yesterday that I was looking into the matter, for the very reason that the hon. Gentleman raises.

Several Hon. Members

rose——

Mr. Speaker

Order. I will take one more—Mr. Knapman.

Mr. Knapman

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. There may be an error in the Order Paper today. In question No. 15, the hon. Member for Edinburgh, Leith (Mr. Brown) was asking about Government sponsored schemes for training under-21s. Is it not more likely that the hon. Gentleman meant to ask about training for the over-21s?

Mr. Speaker

I have no idea. Let us now move on the the ten-minute rule motion. Mr. Amess.

Rev. Ian Paisley (Antrim, North)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

Very well. Dr. Paisley.

Rev. Paisley

When replying to the various points of order that have been raised today, you commented. Mr. Speaker, that it was a convention of the House for Ministers visiting the constituencies of hon. Members to make it known to the Members in question that they intended to visit their constituencies. May I ask you to call the attention of Ministers at the Northern Ireland Office to that convention, as they never abide by it and certainly never inform Members who represent Northern Ireland constituencies when they intend to make such visits?

Mr. Speaker

I was not referring just to Ministers. I was referring to a convention of the House that should apply to all.

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