§
'In section 1 of the Child Benefit Act 1975, after subsection (2) there shall be inserted the following subsections—
(2A) Child benefit shall continue to be paid as in May 1987, and direct to the mother.
(2B) In subsection (2A) above, 'as in May 1987' means at rates which have at least the same value as in May 1987 in relation to the general level of prices obtaining in Great Britain.".'.
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
§ Ms. ShortI beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
The purpose of the new clause is to maintain child benefit in its current form, paid directly to the main carer—usually the mother—but to make good the amount lost in the freeze between April 1988–89 and April 1989–90 and to index-link the benefit thereafter.
It is obvious that what we have just heard represented a deliberate attempt to prevent serious debate on child benefit. It illustrates the disgraceful way in which the Government have treated the Bill and the major issues that we sought to raise in the House. The Government are ashamed of their position on child benefit, and rightly so, because they are cutting the value of support for children throughout the country and enlarging the poverty trap for the low paid and for lone mothers.
We know that the Ministers are not in charge of their Department and have to do as the Treasury tells them. We know that in the past, along with some of the more decent elements of their party, they have been great supporters of child benefit, but such is their lust to hang on to office in a collapsing Government that they now attempt to justify the outrageous policy of cutting child benefit and then cutting it again to bring the benefit into disrepute and allow it to wither away. That, clearly, is the strategy which underpins the Government's actions, and it is entirely in breach of the manifesto on which they fought the last election.
It is impossible to place a different interpretation on the words on which each and every one of those Ministers fought the election. They said that child benefit would be paid "as now", and directly to the mother. "As now" must imply its value—it would be a joke to say that a benefit whose value had been reduced to almost nothing was being paid "as now". In cutting the benefit, the Government are breaking their faith with the electorate. They have been forced to guillotine the debate and to filibuster because they are so ashamed of what they have to say that they are not willing to say it to the House. 1095 If there were time, I should like to go into some of the details of the Secretary of State's justification for the last freeze in child benefit. It does not bear scrutiny. He said:
take-home pay for those on average male earnings has already increased on the past year by some £16 a week, and will have been further increased by up to £3 a week for the great majority of families as a result of this month's reduction in national insurance contributions—indeed, more where both partners are working. The introduction of independent taxation next April will bring further improvements for many".—(Official Report, 25 October 1989, Vol. 158, c. 842.]None of that stands up. First, independent taxation will not affect the majority of families with children. Secondly, increased male earnings do not necessarily go to mothers and their children, as a survey has shown. Thirdly, two-earner couples gain more from a general increase in gross earnings levels and reductions in national insurance contributions than do one-earner couples.The Government's position is indefensible. All the rhetoric from the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State about their new-found concern for lone parents in need of assistance to avoid the poverty trap is flatly contradicted by what they are doing to child benefit. Child benefit is the one benefit which helps low-paid workers —and, in particular, lone parents—to get off benefit and into work, because they take the benefit with them. The vast majority of lone parents live in poverty, as do their children. They are trapped in that condition because there are no jobs available which pay enough, because the Government have desperately, urgently and thoroughly encouraged low pay in the economy. The erosion of child benefit will increase the already rising proportion of lone-parent families trapped on benefit.
I am sorry that a number of hon. Members have been deprived of the opportunity to speak—not least by the ignorant, stupid and ill-informed speech of the hon. Member for Harrow, West (Mr. Hughes) on the previous new clause. He was obviously dragged into the Chamber by the Whips to talk about something about which he knew nothing and to prevent serious debate by filibustering.
§ Ms. ShortCertainly not—the hon. Gentleman would not do so—and I will not withdraw what I said either.
Mr. HughesOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I do not expect civility from the hon. Lady. However, I make speeches when I choose and not when anyone else asks me to, so her suggestion is outrageous.
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Paul Dean)That is a point for debate, not a point of order.
§ The Secretary of State for Social Security (Mr. Tony Newton)The hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Ms. Short) should realise two things. First, had we wished to prevent her from raising the matter, it would have been easy. The fact that she has been able to raise the matter is a sign that her suggestions about my hon. Friends are unfounded. The House must have thought that what she just said about my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow, West (Mr. Hughes) was outside the conventions of this place. Secondly, I have manifestly not had the opportunity, despite having a substantial set of remarks, to make the speech that I would have wished to make in 1096 response to the hon. Lady. It seems sensible, therefore, for us to proceed to the Division that the hon. Lady evidently wishes to have.
§ Mr. Charles Kennedy (Ross, Cromarty and Skye)Does the Secretary of State agree with the analysis of child benefit offered by the previous Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Sir N. Fowler), in the Friday debate a few weeks ago—
§ It being Seven o'clock, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER proceeded, pursuant to the order [29 March], to put forthwith the Question already proposed from the Chair.
§ The House divided: Ayes 211, Noes 305.
1099| Division No. 154] | [7.00 pm |
| AYES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Dunwoody, Hon Mrs Gwyneth |
| Adams, Allen (Paisley N) | Eadie, Alexander |
| Allen, Graham | Eastham, Ken |
| Alton, David | Evans, John (St Helens N) |
| Archer, Rt Hon Peter | Ewing, Harry (Falkirk E) |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray) |
| Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy | Fatchett, Derek |
| Ashton, Joe | Fearn, Ronald |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Field, Frank (Birkenhead) |
| Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE) | Fields, Terry (L'pool B G'n) |
| Barnes, Mrs Rosie (Greenwich) | Fisher, Mark |
| Barron, Kevin | Flannery, Martin |
| Battle, John | Flynn, Paul |
| Beckett, Margaret | Foot, Rt Hon Michael |
| Beggs, Roy | Foster, Derek |
| Beith, A. J. | Foulkes, George |
| Bell, Stuart | Fraser, John |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Fyfe, Maria |
| Bennett, A. F. (D'nt'n & R'dish) | Galloway, George |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Garrett, John (Norwich South) |
| Blunkett, David | Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John |
| Boateng, Paul | Godman, Dr Norman A. |
| Boyes, Roland | Golding, Mrs Llin |
| Bradley, Keith | Gordon, Mildred |
| Brown, Nicholas (Newcastle E) | Gould, Bryan |
| Brown, Ron (Edinburgh Leith) | Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) |
| Buchan, Norman | Grocott, Bruce |
| Buckley, George J. | Hardy, Peter |
| Callaghan, Jim | Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | Heal, Mrs Sylvia |
| Campbell, Ron (Blyth Valley) | Henderson, Doug |
| Campbell-Savours, D. N. | Hinchliffe, David |
| Canavan, Dennis | Hoey, Ms Kate (Vauxhall) |
| Carlile, Alex (Mont'g) | Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth) |
| Clark, Dr David (S Shields) | Home Robertson, John |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | Hood, Jimmy |
| Clay, Bob | Howarth, George (Knowsley N) |
| Clelland, David | Howell, Rt Hon D. (S'heath) |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | Howells, Geraint |
| Cohen, Harry | Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd) |
| Cook, Frank (Stockton N) | Hoyle, Doug |
| Cook, Robin (Livingston) | Hughes, John (Coventry NE) |
| Corbett, Robin | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | Hughes, Roy (Newport E) |
| Cousins, Jim | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Crowther, Stan | Ingram, Adam |
| Cryer, Bob | Janner, Greville |
| Cummings, John | Johnston, Sir Russell |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Jones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside) |
| Dalyell, Tam | Jones, Ieuan (Ynys Môn) |
| Darling, Alistair | Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) | Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine |
| Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) | Kennedy, Charles |
| Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H'l) | Kilfedder, James |
| Dixon, Don | Kinnock, Rt Hon Neil |
| Dobson, Frank | Kirkwood, Archy |
| Doran, Frank | Lambie, David |
| Douglas, Dick | Lamond, James |
| Duffy, A. E. P. | Leighton, Ron |
| Dunnachie, Jimmy | Lestor, Joan (Eccles) |
| Litherland, Robert | Rooker, Jeff |
| Lofthouse, Geoffrey | Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) |
| Loyden, Eddie | Ross, William (Londonderry E) |
| McAllion, John | Rowlands, Ted |
| McAvoy, Thomas | Ruddock, Joan |
| McCartney, Ian | Salmond, Alex |
| McKay, Allen (Barnsley West) | Sedgemore, Brian |
| McKelvey, William | Sheerman, Barry |
| McLeish, Henry | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Maclennan, Robert | Shore, Rt Hon Peter |
| McNamara, Kevin | Short, Clare |
| Madden, Max | Sillars, Jim |
| Marek, Dr John | Skinner, Dennis |
| Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Martin, Michael J. (Springburn) | Smith, C. (Isl'ton & F'bury) |
| Martlew, Eric | Smith, Rt Hon J. (Monk'ds E) |
| Maxton, John | Smith J.P. (Vale of Glam) |
| Meacher, Michael | Smyth, Rev Martin (Belfast S) |
| Meale, Alan | Snape, Peter |
| Michael, Alun | Soley, Clive |
| Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) | Spearing, Nigel |
| Michie, Mrs Ray (Arg'l & Bute) | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Moonie, Dr Lewis | Stott, Roger |
| Morley, Elliot | Strang, Gavin |
| Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe) | Straw, Jack |
| Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Mowlam, Marjorie | Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck) |
| Mullin, Chris | Turner, Dennis |
| Murphy, Paul | Vaz, Keith |
| Nellist, Dave | Walkler, A Cecil (Belfast N) |
| O'Brien, William | Walley, Joan |
| Orme, Rt Hon Stanley | Wareing, Robert N. |
| Owen, Rt Hon Dr David | Watson, Mike (Glasgow, C) |
| Patchett, Terry | Welsh, Michael (Doncaster N) |
| Pendry, Tom | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Pike, Peter L. | Williams, Rt Hon Alan |
| Powell, Ray (Ogmore) | Williams, Alan W. (Carm'then) |
| Prescott, John | Wilson, Brian |
| Primarolo, Dawn | Winnick, David |
| Quin, Ms Joyce | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Radice, Giles | Wray, Jimmy |
| Randall, Stuart | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Redmond, Martin | |
| Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Reid, Dr John | Mr. Frank Haynes and |
| Richardson, Jo | Mr. Martyn Jones |
| NOES | |
| Adley, Robert | Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Bowis, John |
| Alexander, Richard | Boyson, Rt Hon Dr Sir Rhodes |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael | Braine, Rt Hon Sir Bernard |
| Allason, Rupert | Brandon-Bravo, Martin |
| Amery, Rt Hon Julian | Brazier, Julian |
| Amess, David | Bright, Graham |
| Amos, Alan | Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's) |
| Arbuthnot, James | Bruce, Ian (Dorset South) |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Buchanan-Smith, Rt Hon Alick |
| Arnold, Tom (Hazel Grove) | Buck, Sir Antony |
| Ashby, David | Budgen, Nicholas |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Burns, Simon |
| Atkinson, David | Burt, Alistair |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Butcher, John |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N) | Butler, Chris |
| Baldry, Tony | Butterfill, John |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Carlisle, John, (Luton N) |
| Batiste, Spencer | Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) |
| Beaumont-Dark, Anthony | Carrington, Matthew |
| Bellingham, Henry | Carttiss, Michael |
| Bendall, Vivian | Cash, William |
| Benyon, W. | Chapman, Sydney |
| Bevan, David Gilroy | Chope, Christopher |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Clark, Hon Alan (Plym'th S'n) |
| Blaker, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) |
| Body, Sir Richard | Clark, Sir W. (Croydon S) |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe) |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Colvin, Michael |
| Boswell, Tim | Conway, Derek |
| Bottomley, Peter | Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest) |
| Bowden, A (Brighton K'pto'n) | Coombs, Simon (Swindon) |
| Cope, Rt Hon John | Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W) |
| Couchman, James | Hunt, David (Wirral W) |
| Cran, James | Hunter, Andrew |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina | Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas |
| Curry, David | Irvine, Michael |
| Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g) | Irving, Sir Charles |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Jack, Michael |
| Day, Stephen | Jackson, Robert |
| Devlin, Tim | Janman, Tim |
| Dickens, Geoffrey | Jessel, Toby |
| Dorrell, Stephen | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Dover, Den | Jones, Robert B (Herts W) |
| Dunn, Bob | Jopling, Rt Hon Michael |
| Durant, Tony | Key, Robert |
| Dykes, Hugh | King, Roger (B'ham N'thfield) |
| Eggar, Tim | King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater) |
| Emery, Sir Peter | Kirkhope, Timothy |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd) | Knapman, Roger |
| Evennett, David | Knignt, Greg (Derby North) |
| Fallon, Michael | Knight, Dame Jill (Edgbaston) |
| Favell, Tony | Knowles, Michael |
| Fenner, Dame Peggy | Lamont, Rt Hon Norman |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Lang, Ian |
| Fishburn, John Dudley | Latham, Michael |
| Fookes, Dame Janet | Lawrence, Ivan |
| Forman, Nigel | Lee, John (Pendle) |
| Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) | Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh) |
| Forth, Eric | Lennox-Boyd, Hon Work |
| Fox, Sir Marcus | Lightbown, David |
| Franks, Cecil | Lilley, Peter |
| Freeman, Roger | Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant) |
| French, Douglas | Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) |
| Fry, Peter | Luce, Rt Hon Richard |
| Gale, Roger | McCrindle, Robert |
| Gardiner, George | Macfarlane, sir Neil |
| Garel-Jones, Tristan | MacGregor, Rt Hon John |
| Gill, Christopher | MacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire) |
| Glyn, Dr Sir Alan | Maclean, David |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Gorman, Mrs Teresa | McNair-Wilson, sir Michael |
| Gow, Ian | McNair-Wilson, sir Patrick |
| Grant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW) | Madel, David |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Major, Rt Hon John |
| Greenway, John (Ryedale) | Malins, Humfrey |
| Gregory, Conal | Mans, Keith |
| Griffiths, Sir Eldon (Bury St E') | marland, Paul |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N) | Marlow, Tony |
| Grist, Ian | MarShall, John (Hendon S) |
| Ground, Patrick | Martin, David (Portsmouth S) |
| Grylls, Michael | Maude, Hon Francis |
| Gummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn | Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin |
| Hague, William | Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick |
| Hamilton, Hon Archie (Epsom) | Mellor, David |
| Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) | Meyer, Sir Anthony |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Miller, Sir Hal |
| Hanley, Jeremy | Mills, Iain |
| Hannam, John | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Hargreaves, A. (B'ham H'll Gr') | Mitchell, Sir David |
| Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn) | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Harris, David | Moore, Rt Hon John |
| Haselhurst, Alan | Morris, M (N'hampton S) |
| Hawkins, Christopher | Morrison, Sir Charles |
| Hayes, Jerry | Morrison, Rt Hon P (Chester) |
| Heathcoat-Amory, David | Moss, Malcolm |
| Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael | Moynihan, Hon Colin |
| Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE) | Mudd, David |
| Hicks, Robert (Cornwall SE) | Neale, Gerrard |
| Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L. | Neubert, Michael |
| Hill, James | Newton, Rt Hon Tony |
| Hind, Kenneth | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm) | Nicholson, David (Taunton) |
| Holt, Richard | Norris, Steve |
| Hordern, Sir Peter | Onslow, Rt Hon Cranley |
| Howard, Rt Hon Michael | Oppenheim, Phillip |
| Howarth, Alan (Strat'd-on-A) | Page, Richard |
| Howarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd) | Paice, James |
| Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | parkinson, Rt Hon Cecil |
| Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) | Patnick, Irvine |
| Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk) | Patten, Rt Hon Chris (Bath) |
| Patten, Rt Hon John | Summerson, Hugo |
| Pawsey, James | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Porter, David (Waveney) | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Portillo, Michael | Taylor, Teddy (S'end E) |
| Price, Sir David | Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman |
| Raffan, Keith | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Redwood, John | Thompson, D. (Calder Valley) |
| Renton, Rt Hon Tim | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Rhodes James, Robert | Thornton, Malcolm |
| Ridley, Rt Hon Nicholas | Thurnham, Peter |
| Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Roberts, Wyn (Conwy) | Tracey, Richard |
| Roe, Mrs Marion | Tredinnick, David |
| Rost, Peter | Trippier, David |
| Rowe, Andrew | Trotter, Neville |
| Rumbold, Mrs Angela | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Ryder, Richard | Viggers, Peter |
| Sainsbury, Hon Tim | Waddington, Rt Hon David |
| Scott, Rt Hon Nicholas | Wakeham, Rt Hon John |
| Shaw, David (Dover) | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) | Walker, Bill (T'side North) |
| Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') | Waller, Gary |
| Shephard, Mrs G. (Norfolk SW) | Ward, John |
| Shersby, Michael | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Sims, Roger | Warren, Kenneth |
| Skeet, Sir Trevor | Watts, John |
| Soames, Hon Nicholas | Wells, Bowen |
| Speed, Keith | Wheeler, Sir John |
| Speller, Tony | Whitney, Ray |
| Spicer, Sir Jim (Dorset W) | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Squire, Robin | Wilshire, David |
| Stanbrook, Ivor | Wolfson, Mark |
| Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John | Wood, Timothy |
| Stern, Michael | Woodcock, Dr. Mike |
| Stevens, Lewis | Yeo, Tim |
| Stewart, Allan (Eastwood) | Younger, Rt Hon George |
| Stewart, Andy (Sherwood) | |
| Stewart, Rt Hon Ian (Herts N) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Stokes, Sir John | Mr. Alastair Goodlad and |
| Stradling Thomas, Sir John | Mr. Tom Sackville. |
| Sumberg, David |
§ Question accordingly negatived.