HC Deb 18 October 1989 vol 158 cc139-41
16. Mr. Buchanan-Smith

To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will remove from local authorities the discretion to vary the multiples for the setting of the standard community charge; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Rifkind

The Government believe that the best course of action is the increased local authority discretion which I announced on 26 July. This has been widely welcomed.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Is my right hon. and learned Friend really confident? I do not share his confidence. Is he aware that some holiday home owners in my constituency do not have inside sanitation, electricity or water but have seen their rates increase from about £10 to more than £400? Local authorities have discretion to apply the standard charge at a lower level, but they are not doing so. Will my right hon. and learned Friend take more direct steps to ensure that the properties that I have described do not suffer from such treatment by local authorities?

Mr. Rifkind

Until the announcement in July, a local authority which wished to apply a single multiple would have had to do so in respect of all standard homes in its area. We have been informed by the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities that if local authorities had the discretion which, indeed, they will now have, to apply a single multiple to certain categories of second homes for the standard charge they would be inclined to use it. The convention has also given us an assurance that it intends strongly to recommend to local authorities that they use the discretion that has now been made available to them.

Mr. Douglas

Will the Secretary of State concede that in terms of the poll tax we are moving towards chaos in Scotland, not because of statements that he has made but because of statements that he has not made on matters such as Alzheimer's disease? A concession for those with Alzheimer's disease has now been made, although at the Dispatch Box the Secretary of State repeatedly refused to make concessions. On 26 July the Secretary of State made some statements about local authorities submitting bills for small sums to people who were dead and he seemed to suggest that those could be waived by local authorities. Would he care to clarify that because it needs urgent consideration in the whole of Scotland?

Mr. Rifkind

My hon. Friend the Minister of State made it clear before the House rose for the summer recess that we had every intention of helping those who have Alzheimer's disease. I am delighted that we have been able to announce the way in which that will be done. I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would have welcomed that rather than carp about it.

In reply to the other half of his question, my observation was that I believed it to be inconceivable that COSLA would seek to take action against a local authority that did not pursue a small sum due in respect of someone who had died. I hope that the position is now suitably clarified.

Mrs. Fyfe

How is it that the poll tax legislation, which went through the House of Commons first for Scotland and subsequently for England and Wales, was thought to be perfect beyond the bounds of any possible criticism, yet now hon. Members are beginning to discover some defects in it? Can it possibly be that Tory Members fear losing their seats at the next general election?

Mr. Rifkind

The hon. Lady is under a considerable misapprehension. The legislation approved by the House, both for Scotland and England, will be implemented. The changes announced recently were purely transitional arrangements—[Interruption.] Indeed, at the end of what will be a short transition the original proposals will come into effect in exactly the way that Parliament approved.

Mr. Jack

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the Opposition's disinformation campaign on the community charge in Scotland has been unsuccessful? Can he confirm that already 83 per cent. of people are paying the community charge in Scotland?

Mr. Rifkind

Not only can I confirm that, but I can inform the House that the figure is as high as 95 per cent. in some parts of Scotland. Labour local authorities have themselves said that the level of payment to date is broadly comparable with that under the old rating system at this time of year.

Mr. Kirkwood

Is it not entirely disingenuous of the Secretary of State to blame local authorities for the financial adverse effects suffered as a result of these poll tax anomalies when local authorities have suffered substantial cuts in grants and would be penalised in some cases if they made available additional expenditure to cover such anomalies? When can we cross-examine the Secretary of State on the Floor of the House on the detail of his statement of 26 July? Has he had a chance to look at the new anomaly created by dragging the bed-and-breakfast operations into the rating system as a result of the standard community charge provisions?

Mr. Rifkind

The legislative requirements that flow from the recent announcement will be laid before the House at the earliest opportunity. It is extraordinary that, as a Member of Parliament from the borders area, the hon. Gentleman should not mention that under the new financing arrangements for local authorities, the local authorities in his part of Scotland will receive substantially greater grants than in the past and will do so under a system where grant penalties have been withdrawn. If the hon. Genteleman cannot express any welcome for that, it shows that he is a most ungrateful character.

Mr. Maxton

Although we welcome the long-delayed concession in the poll tax in relation to Alzheimer's disease, for which Opposition Members have fought long and hard, is it not shameful that in Scotland that concession will not be backdated to 1 April this year and that the concession will be given to all Alzheimer's disease sufferers from the next financial year only? Is it not obvious from the concessions made at the Tory party conference in Blackpool last week that, as a result of the messages coming from Scotland about the gross unfairness of this tax and the bureaucratic mess surrounding it, the Tories in England are running scared about the effect that it will have on them at the next general election?

Mr. Rifkind

The chairman of the Alzheimers Disease Society warmly welcomed the Government's announce-ment when he met the Minister concerned. The main political change in Scotland since the introduction of the community charge has been that the Scottish Nationalists have fallen back to third place, which is where they belong.