University Funding (Hansard, 17 October 1989)

§ 1. Mr. Dalyell
To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received on the funding of science, medicine and dentistry in universities from Sir David Smith FRS principal of the University of Edinburgh; and if he will make a statement.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Robert Jackson)
Sir David Smith has made no such representations to my right hon. Friend.

§ Mr. Dalyell
With reference to the Edinburgh dental school, whose version of the facts do Ministers believe—Sir David Smith's or Sir Donald McCallum's?

§ Mr. Jackson
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on being the first to ask a question under these novel conditions. It is a tribute entirely appropriate to his prominent position at Question Time that this should be so. The hon. Gentleman implies that the Government have to make a choice between these two distinguished gentlemen, both of whom have given great service to the education system. That is not the Government's job. In this case the decision is made by the Universities Funding Council, and it has done so.

§ Mrs. Margaret Ewing
What account was taken by the Universities Funding Council of the job prospects of the 56 people employed at the Edinburgh college of dentistry and what funding will be given to the new postgraduate institute?

§ Mr. Jackson
The postgraduate institute is still being considered and there is a good prospect of proceeding in that direction. The matter of redundancies—if any—will have to be sorted out when the reallocations occur, as they 3 do from time to time. The decision falls to the Universities Funding Council and it has been made after due deliberation.

§ Mr. Darling
Does the Minister realise that he cannot just wash his hands of this miserable affair of the closure of the dental school and that the Government must make available additional funding to ensure that the post-graduate institute is more than just an empty promise? Does he also accept that the cost of closing the school will mean cuts elsewhere in the university unless additional funding is made available? It is not just a matter for the UFC but for the Ministers concerned because they were at the root of the problem to start with.

§ Mr. Jackson
The Universities Funding Council is responsible for allocating the funds provided to it by the Government. If the Government were to try to influence the direction of that funding they would have to come to this House to ask for specific approval. It was not the spirit of the Education Reform Act 1988, nor of the Opposition when the Act was passing through Parliament, that we should interfere in detail. The provision of facilities for postgraduate dental education at the postgraduate school, including continuing dental education, is essentially a matter for my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland in his role as the Health Minister for Scotland.

§ Dr. Bray
Is the Minister aware that not only the UFC but the Advisory Board for the Research Councils is responsible for the funding of science? Is he aware that the new Secretary of State has been told by the advisory board that spending on academic research in Britain is £150 million to £200 million below that of our principal European competitors, whether measured as a proportion of GDP or per capita? Is he further aware that the Secretary of State had an appalling record for cutting research and development in his previous job, under the policy of cutting near-market research, but that he is now dealing with a wholly different category of research? We look forward to his implementing the advice of the Advisory Board for the Research Councils in full.

§ Mr. Jackson
Whatever comparisons of financial inputs are made—many sophisticated comparisons can be made —if we analyse the output in terms of the share of world citations for British science we see that Britain is second only to the United States and is well ahead of France, Germany and Japan.
As for the ABRC, we are in the middle of the public expenditure survey discussions, so it would not be appropriate for me to comment at this stage.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
Is the Minister aware that 90,000 free courses of dental treatment are administered by the facility at Edinburgh, which also provides valuable expert advice on, for instance, the dental treatment of patients with AIDS, and which plays an invaluable role in preventive dentistry in Scotland, where there is a high prevalence of dental caries? Why are the Government washing their hands of the responsibility to persuade the UFC of the need to retain this valuable facility which serves my constituents?

§ Mr. Jackson
The Government are not washing their hands: they are implementing an Act of Parliament that gave the decision about these matters to the Universities 4 Funding Council, which has taken into account all these factors. The McCallum committee was set up specifically to look into the Health Service implications of the closure, and a decision has now been made by the properly constituted body.