HC Deb 29 November 1989 vol 162 cc706-9
9. Mr. Duffy

To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what consultation has been sought by the United States Secretary of State in preparation for the Malta summit meeting on 2 December between President Bush and Mr. Gorbachev.

Mr. Hurd

There have been frequent consultations, including a recent visit to London by the United States Under-Secretary of State for Political Affairs. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and the President of the United States met at Camp David on 24 November.

Mr. Duffy

That all sounds rather casual. Is not the Secretary of State aware that the North Atlantic Assembly, which includes some of his own right hon. and hon. Friends as well as some of mine, believes that the State Department had a special responsibility to consult all its allies before the Malta summit? Not only have such summits a changing significance as we move from a bipolar to a multipolar world, but there is genuine anxiety on all sides that there should be no more Yaltas or Reykjaviks.

Mr. Hurd

I do not think that the summits in which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister takes part tend to be casual affairs, and that is certainly not the case on this occasion. Nor was there anything casual about the way in which the United States set about notifying and consulting its allies on what is in prospect at Malta. On the contrary, the American Administration have taken great care both in public and in private to stress that the matters to be discussed are of prime interest to their allies, including this country, and that the American president has no intention of concluding agreements with the Societ Union in the absence of those allies at Malta. The president will himself be attending the NATO conference on Monday to report what happened at the summit. That follows the advance assurances and consultations which I mentioned, which could hardly have been more complete.

Mr. Ian Taylor

As it was Sir Winston Churchill, in the later stages of the second world war after talks on the island of Malta, who said: From Malta to Yalta, we must not falter", does my right hon. Friend agree that Gennady Gerasimov's use of the phrase "Malta to Yalta" was, given its implications, unfortunate? Does my right hon. Friend welcome President Bush's recent clear statement that he will not seek to make bilateral deals over the heads of the European allies, particularly in respect of arms reductions?

Mr. Hurd

I agree that Mr. Gerasimov's choice of phrase is sometimes a bit odd. I did not care for his phrase, "Sinatra doctrine", to describe an important statement of Mr. Gorbachev's views made in Helsinki. My hon. Friend is perfectly right in his second point; I referred to the statement that he mentioned when answering the original question.

Mr. Grocott

Will the Foreign Secretary take every opportunity to urge upon President Bush that the key reason why the world has welcomed recent events in eastern Europe is that it rejects the concept of superpowers using small powers as instruments of their foreign policy? Will the right hon. Gentleman urge upon President Bush that just as the Soviet Union has stopped treating eastern Europe as its backyard, it is high time that the United States stopped treating central and south America as its backyard?

Mr. Hurd

One starting point of the changes in eastern Europe was the decision by Mr. Gorbachev that Soviet troops will not intervene in the internal pressures for reform in eastern Europe. There is no parallel to that in Central America.

Mr. Cyril D. Townsend

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the widespread events in eastern Europe give the British Government no excuse for postponing the further development of the European Community? Rather, we should take the opportunity to strengthen and enhance further the Community—and in particular, West Germany's role within it.

Mr. Hurd

We are all in favour of strengthening and enhancing the Community's role. The first step is to complete in practice that which we have already undertaken to do in principle. On that, we and the European Commission are perhaps the closest allies in pressing for the passing of the legislation required under the Single European Act. We are perfectly prepared to discuss the steps that should follow, but the best impression will be created if we successfully carry through that which has already been undertaken.

Dr. Thomas

Will the Foreign Secretary accept that large sections of public opinion in the United States are keen to use the opportunity created by Mr. Gorbachev to scale down the United States presence in Europe? Will the Prime Minister be an isolationist in NATO and oppose such reductions, as she has already been an isolationist in the Commonwealth and in the European Community?

Mr. Hurd

I do not think that that is the position. This year ambitious negotiations are taking place in Vienna —the conventional forces in Europe negotiations—in which we shall play a full and enthusiastic part. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the talks are designed to bring about a substantial scaling down. We are not opposed to a change—indeed, we have been one of the protagonists of change—but we believe that it should be orderly change so that nobody at any stage believes that legitimate security interests are being put at risk.

Mr. David Shaw

Will my right hon. Friend ensure that President Bush, in preparing for his talks with Mr. Gorbachev, is made fully aware that the problems of eastern Europe are due to the rigid adherence to Socialism in eastern Europe over many years? Will he ensure that President Bush points out to Mr. Gorbachev that as our Prime Minister has had a successful policy of rigid adherence to capitalism there is much that we can teach the eastern bloc in terms of our expertise in defeating Socialism?

Mr. Hurd

What we are seeing in eastern Europe is a series of edifices which looked very impressive and which deceived many Opposition Members, but which turned out to have no foundations because they were not based on the consent of the people. By contrast, in Britain and in western Europe we have institutions about which we argue a great deal, but which have foundations and therefore will endure.

Mr. Kaufman

Since the Prime Minister, when she was in the United States for consultations with President Bush, said that unlike the German Foreign Minister and Lord Carrington she still believes in the modernisation of short-range nuclear weapons, will the Foreign Secretary tell us whom he envisages as the targets of those short-range nuclear weapons? Are they the millions of Poles who elected a Solidarity-led Government, the millions of East Germans who forced their way through the Berlin wall, or the millions of Czechs who have just overthrown the Communist Government in Prague?

Mr. Hurd

There is no difference between President Bush, the Governments of the Alliance, the German Government and our own about the comprehensive concept which lays down that first we complete the CFE negotiations, then we enter into discussions about the short-range nuclear weapons and then, if there is a need to discuss modernisation, we do so. That is the entirely logical and acceptable answer to which the Alliance is agreed.

Mr. Steel

Does the Secretary of State recall that after the meeting between the Prime Minister and President Bush there were several press reports, inspired or otherwise, which suggested that she was urging caution at the forthcoming Malta meeting in relation to progress on conventional force reductions? Will the right hon. Gentleman, in his new non-subservient role, make it quite clear that if the Malta summit results in speeding up conventional force reductions in Europe, the Government will welcome that?

Mr. Hurd

There is already an ambitious programme for conventional force reductions by negotiation with the Soviet Union. The president has made it clear—wisely, I believe—that he does not intend to negotiate aboard a ship in the Mediterranean new arrangements that go beyond that. To do so at that time and in that way would cause a peck of trouble within the Alliance. The president knows that, and it will not happen. What will happen through the usual machinery of the Alliance are, first, discussions on CFE and then the other steps that may be necessary. I have already mentioned the comprehensive concept and the discussions on short-range nuclear weapons.

Mr. Speaker

Question No. 11—Mr. David Atkinson.

Mr. Ron Brown

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

I must hear it. What is the point of order?

Mr. Ron Brown

Was it in order for you to call the right hon. Member for Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale (Mr. Steel) when he was not even standing? Is it not the case that in this place we are all equal but that some are more equal than others?

Mr. Speaker

We are all equal. The hon. Gentleman was equal yesterday.