HC Deb 14 November 1989 vol 160 cc168-70
2. Mr. Skinner

To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what plans he has for the expansion of the city technology college programme; and if he will make a statement.

The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. John MacGregor)

Three CTCs are up and running and firm starting dates in 1990 and 1991 have been announced for a further eight colleges. We shall continue to build, with sponsors, on this excellent foundation.

Mr. Skinner

It is to be hoped that the Government will build in a better fashion than they have so far. When the previous Secretary of State announced—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."]—the city technology colleges, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he said that all or most of the money would come from private funds? Yet of the £19.3 million—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."]—I have asked a question.

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman asked, "Is the Minister aware?"

Mr. Skinner

To satisfy the House, I will say it again. Is the Minister aware that of the £19.3 million that has been spent, £16 million has come from public funds? If the Government have that sort of money to throw around, why not spend it on Bolsover schools and make sure that the little infant school in South Normanton has running water laid on for the toddlers? That is what they should do with the money.

Mr. MacGregor

I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would have concluded that the more than £40 million already raised from sponsors—[HON. MEMBERS: "Raised?"]—already raised and pledged by sponsors for this exciting innovation—was a considerable achievement in a short space of time. He should be grateful to the sponsors who are adding to the Government funding for this exciting new scheme. It has many advantages of innovation, for inner-city areas and of improving the technology curricula. I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would regard that as a success.

Mr. Pawsey

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I, too, am concerned about the expansion of city technology colleges, although perhaps not in the same way as the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner)? My concern is that there are not enough of them and that they are not coming on stream quickly enough—

Hon. Members

Question.

Mr. Speaker

Order. The rules apply to both sides.

Mr. Pawsey

Is my right hon. Friend aware that we should do more to speed up the building and introduction of these schools? What measures will he take to ensure that we produce more than 20 CTCs in the least possible time?

Mr. MacGregor

Twenty remains the target and the pace at which it is realistic and practical to move must be taken into account. Nevertheless, I should have thought that getting three schools up and running within three years, and the gathering of more than £40 million of private sponsorship, represents a considerable achievement.

Mr. Simon Hughes

Given that Tory-controlled county councils are protesting vehemently at having to enforce cuts in their education budgets in the coming year and given the massive demand for expenditure on teachers' salaries to restore the morale of the profession, will the Secretary of State confirm that there will be no announcement tomorrow of increased capital funding of CTCs? Since the original plan is a failure, with the Government having to put up 80 per cent. rather than 20 per cent. of the money, may we have a stop to this separatist and elitist expenditure at the expense of the country's general education?

Mr. MacGregor

I cannot announce in advance what will be said tomorrow. The hon. Gentleman cannot say that the scheme is a failure given that, for example, Kingshurst CTC had more than 1,200 applications for 180 places, Nottingham had more than 300 applications for 180 places and Sylvan has already had more than 480 applications for 180 places. All that shows a clear demand from parents for those schools, which cannot be regarded as a failure. The hon. Gentleman will know that we have increased the revenue support grants and spending assessments by a considerable sum compared with their equivalents last year, so there has been a considerable increase in local authorities' current spending on education in general.

Mr. Dunn

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the CTC concept is so good, attractive and necessary that all hon. Members should be taking steps to have one set up in their communities? Will my right hon. Friend confirm that there is nothing to stop local education authorities setting up CTC-style schools if they wish to do so?

Mr. MacGregor

Some local education authorities are putting forward interesting ideas and I shall encourage them to continue to explore that thought. I should like more sponsors to come forward, but it is remarkable that we have already achieved more than £40 million. But the more sponsors that we have, the better pleased I shall be.

Mr. Fatchett

Is it not true that the CTC scheme has failed to attract private sponsorship and that that is why only £3 million of private money has been invested? Why did the Minister of State have to write to the Conservative leader of Lincolnshire county council on 14 September saying that the Government and the CTC trust were unable to attract private sector support for a CTC in Lincoln? Is that a sign of the attractiveness and success of the scheme, or is it just a sign of the Government's further failure to attract private funding?

Mr. MacGregor

I do not see how the pledging of more than £40 million of sponsorship can be regarded as a failure. That is one of the largest examples of giving by the private sector to education for a long time, so I do not know how it can be regarded as a failure. With regard to Lincoln, one of the relevant points is that CTCs are meant to be directed at inner-city areas, and that is where we have been concentrating.

4. Mr. Gill

To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received regarding the proposed establishment of a city technology college in Telford.

The Minister of State, Department of Education and Science (Mrs. Angela Rumbold)

I have received 14 letters following the announcement by the Mercers Company of its intention to sponsor a CTC in Telford.

Mr. Gill

Will my hon. Friend take this opportunity to publicise the fact that CTCs are not designed only for academically gifted children, and that children hoping to take A-level courses and go on to polytechnics or universities would do best to continue attending existing secondary schools? There will thus be no creaming-off from those schools.

Will my hon. Friend also take this opportunity to assure the House that further consultation will take place before the catchment area for the CTC in Telford is drawn up?

Mrs. Rumbold

As was clearly announced, the CTC initiative has always been intended to cover children of all abilities, directing its efforts particularly towards children who may need more technological education. We hope that A-level courses will feature as much as any other course. I assure my hon. Friend that we are considering catchment areas wider than those applying to ordinary local comprehensives.

Mr. Grocott

Is the Minister aware that I have received numerous representations concerning the proposed Telford CTC? I have them all here—the Minister is welcome to read them—and they are all against the proposal.

Is the Minister further aware that those objections have come not only from parents, teachers, pupils and school governors, but from churches, parish and district councils—Conservative and Labour—and the county council? Is it not time that she accepted the overwhelming evidence that the scheme would cause major disruption to the secondary school system which less than two years ago was approved by the Secretary of State's predecessor, and is it not time that it was scrapped?

Mrs. Rumbold

No, Sir. I understand that the sponsor, the Mercers Company, is looking carefully at all the responses that it has received from the local population—including the local education authority, head teachers and others—and that those responses will eventually be recorded and taken fully into account.