HC Deb 08 November 1989 vol 159 cc981-3
5. Mr. Jack

To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what has been the outcome of his recent discussions with representatives of the local authorities on the introduction of his recently announced amendments to the community charge arrangements.

The Minister for Local Government and Inner Cities (Mr. David Hunt)

Officials are discussing operational aspects of the community charge transitional relief scheme with the local authority associations. In addition, individual local authorities have been invited to make representations. In the light of the response from local government a paper setting out full details of the scheme will be issued shortly.

Mr. Jack

If Labour's control of Lancashire county council results in its exceeding his spending limits for next year while Conservative-controlled Fylde spends within its limits, would the county's action deny pensioners and other vulnerable groups the full benefit of the package of measures that he has just described?

Mr. Hunt

My hon. Friend raises a serious problem —that of the prudent district council and the spendthrift Labour county council, but I give him this pledge. I shall bring regulations before the House prescribing the form of the bill and that bill will make it absolutely clear to every chargepayer which council is the overspender.

Mr. Madden

As the Minister visits Bradford with the frequency of a revolving door, does he agree that it would be a disgrace if my constituents living on the Lower Grange estate had to pay the poll tax before Bradford council kept its promise to build new homes for rent on that estate? In the unlikely event of question No. 80 being reached, will the Minister give a commitment to agree to the grant so that those houses for rent can be built before he introduces his poll tax charges?

Mr. Hunt

The poor hon. Gentleman! To continue the revolving door analogy, whereas in Bradford the Conservatives are well on the way in, he is well on the way out.

Mr. Stern

Does my hon. Friend agree that the most helpful transitional arrangement that he can discuss to overcome the despair of community charge payers in counties such as Avon is community charge capping?

Mr. Hunt

I would greatly regret having to do that, but we shall not hesitate to cap overspending councils.

Mr. Gould

Does the Minister agree with Mr. Roy Thomason, the Tory chairman of the Association of District Councils, that his notional average poll tax figure will lead to "false expectations"? Will he or his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State undertake to revise that figure upwards when the Chancellor in his Autumn Statement concedes, as he must, that his inflation forecast was too low? If the Government persist in using the bogus figure, does he agree that the so-called safety net will not save many people from paying more than the £3 extra once the poll tax arrangements take effect?

Mr. Hunt

The hon. Gentleman quotes Mr. Thomason out of context. The real victims of the fact that Labour councils generally overspend will be those unfortunate charge payers who live in those local authority areas, who are having false expectations thrust on them by spendthrift Labour councils.

Mr. Holt

My hon. Friend will know that Cleveland has some of the highest rates in the country. When considering the arrangements, will he examine the possibility of putting law into practice so that the recommendations of the Audit Commission, which in Cleveland has identified savings of £307,000 in the highways department alone, will have the backing of law and will not be flouted by the Labour-controlled Cleveland county council?

Mr. Hunt

My hon. Friend, with characteristic accuracy, has identified a serious problem. The independent Audit Commission has recognised that in addition to the savings that my hon. Friend has mentioned there exists for local government a savings potential of £900 million of which only £350 million has so far been brought into effect. That is the challenge presently facing Labour local government.