Wages (Hansard, 14 March 1989)

§ 12. Mrs. Mahon
To ask the Secretary of State for Employment how many and what percentage of full-time male workers earned less than the Council of Europe's decency threshold in the latest available year in the United Kingdom.

§ Mr. Nicholls
There is no such thing as a Council of Europe decency threshold for a minimum acceptable level of earnings.

§ Mrs. Mahon
In that case, will the Minister say how many, and what percentage of, full-time male workers earn less than the decency threshold decided by the committee of expert advisers advising on the European social charter? In case the Minister has forgotten, let me remind him that it is 68 per cent. of all full-time average earnings.

§ Mr. Nicholls
I am not sure that the hon. Lady can have been listening to the answer that I have just given. She asked me about the Council of Europe decency threshold for a minimum acceptable level of earnings. Let me repeat that there is no such thing. Obviously, what she is thinking about is a recommendation of the Council of Europe expert advisory committee as to 68 per cent. of national average earnings. I repeat that there is no such thing as a decency threshold. It would be a good idea if the hon. Lady and her hon. Friends were to get a grasp of that fact.

§ Mr. Paice
Does my hon. Friend agree that any threshold relating to average earning is bogus because it is self-perpetuating; as wages increase, so does the average, so there will always be, per se, people below that figure. Any such proposal is designed to give credence to those who want to criticise and abuse, such as the Opposition.

§ Mr. Nicholls
My hon. Friend is right, but I am sure that the point will be lost on Opposition Members. One cannot talk of 68, 78 or 88 per cent. without considering the 100 per cent. figure.

§ Mr. Wallace
Does the Minister agree that low-paid people would be helped enormously if the national insurance system were changed to allow a threshold rather than an allowance, so that if one earns an extra pound one does not have to pay £2 as a national insurance contribution?

§ Mr. Nicholls
That does not arise from this question, and this is not the time to speculate about it.

§ Mr. Strang
Does the Minister acknowledge that 500,000 male employees and 2.3 million female employees will not benefit from any increases in allowances that might be announced this afternoon because they do riot earn enough to pay tax? Do not Government proposals to abolish wages councils make it clear that the Government are pursuing policies to make the rich richer and the poor poorer?

§ Mr. Nicholls
The hon. Gentleman talks about deductions from those who are in work, but if he had his way and followed the policies advocated by his party, fewer people would have the opportunity to work.