Points of Order (Hansard, 19 July 1989)

§ Mr. Bruce Grocott (The Wrekin)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am amazed that the Bill moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, North-East (Mr. Hughes) received the unanimous support of the House. It concerns a crucial matter, relating directly to the statement that we have just heard, and the critical questions that it raises. In view of the unanimity of the House, will you use your good offices to see whether there is any means by which we could, even at this late stage of the Session, facilitate the quick passage of the Bill, as it would not be opposed?

§ Madam Deputy Speaker (Miss Betty Boothroyd)
Second Reading is on 20 October.

§ Mr. Bob Cryer (Bradford, South)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We shall soon deal with 15 statutory instruments. Three of them carry on the Order Paper the notification: The Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments has drawn the special attention of the House to the Instrument in its Twenty Sixth Report". That report is in the Vote Office, but the Committee has not been able to conform with the Standing Orders and make a full report because it examined these instruments, which were drawn to our attention by our counsel, yesterday afternoon at 4.15 when we had our usual weekly meeting. That means that the evidence, which was taken over a period lasting well over an hour from civil servants involved in the drafting of the instruments, and which contains a great deal of background and elucidation material, cannot be provided for the House. In those circumstances, although this is not a point for you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I feel that the statutory instruments should be withdrawn. By crowding through these statutory instruments, the Government are preventing a Standing Order from being operated. I wanted to draw that to your attention.

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
I understand the point made by the hon. Gentleman, but it is for the House to decide whether it wishes to have regard to the Committee's opinion. There is nothing out of order about the motions before us. This is a matter for the House to debate and for the House to take a decision on at the end of the debate.

§ Mr. Peter L. Pike (Burnley)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
We should really get on with motions 1 to 15 on water and public health.

§ Mr. Pike
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I seek your guidance on two issues. I hope that you will be able to consult Mr. Speaker on the first point, which concerns the problem that the papers with the statement were said to be available in the Vote Office, but were not. This problem has put Mr. Speaker and the occupant of the Chair, whoever that person is, in difficulty on numerous occasions. It is time that Mr. Speaker, you and others involved found a better way for making papers relevant to statements available to hon. Members when the statements are made. It is even more appalling that those papers are handed out to members of the press; they get a better service than hon. Members.
388 On several occasions the Secretary of State referred to a question that he had to answer, but it was a planted question, No. 215. This happens time after time. We always recognise those questions on the Order Paper because they bear that mark that shows that they were handed in for answer the day before.
What is particularly galling is that other hon. Members may have asked similar questions some time before, and got the answer afterwards in the reply to the planted question. The Chair should be making it firmly known—it is your job, Madam Deputy Speaker, to protect the interests of Back-Benchers—that the practice of Ministers, through their parliamentary private secretaries, of asking one of their colleagues to table these planted questions is to be deprecated and should be stopped.

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
On the first point that the hon. Gentleman raised, I am sure that Mr. Speaker and my other colleagues in the Chair appreciate the sympathy that the hon. Gentleman and others have extended. I agree with what he said. As to the second point, it is a matter of procedure. I ask the hon. Gentleman to ponder it carefully and seek to raise the matter with the Select Committee on Procedure.

§ Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. This concerns the documents appended to the statement, which we were told by the Secretary of State today referred to a parliamentary question outlining what the Secretary of State believes to be Labour policy. As you will know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that is pure unadulterated lies and rubbish. Now——

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. Mr. Speaker has already dealt with that matter. If the hon. Gentleman has a point of order, I must listen to it, but it must be a genuine point of order and not a matter for debate.

§ Mr. Campbell-Savours
This is not a question for debate. I have tabled many questions over the past 10 years that I have been a Member of Parliament and on a number of occasions I have received the reply that questions cannot be answered because of disproportionate costs. In replying to that question, the Secretary of State has set a precedent because he has accepted that a certain question can be answered at a particular cost. I put it to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the Chair should establish what the cost was so that in future, when questions are not answered because of disproportionate cost, we might have the basis for appeal to the Chair to have the questions answered.
This is not a spurious matter. It is important because the precedent has been set for expensive questions to be answered. The Chair and Parliament should know what the cost was in this instance so that in future we can measure whether it is fair and reasonable for a Department to state that a question cannot be answered on the basis of disproportionate cost.

§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. When a Minister responds to a question referring to the Opposition's policy—this arises during questions to departmental Ministers and especially during questions to the Prime Minister—the occupant of the Chair will invariably remind the Minister that it is for the Government to state what their policy is and that we should not respond by referring to the
389 Opposition's policy. That is because the Minister is responsible for Government policy. He has no responsibility for the Opposition's policy.
This afternoon we have seen an extension of the practice that Mr. Speaker deprecates during Question Time. When Mr. Speaker says that an hon. Member cannot continue asking questions about matters for which the Minister has no responsibility, the hon. Member must resume his place. In this instance, the Secretary of State for the Environment answered a planted question from one of his hon. Friends about Labour party policy——

§ Mr. Campbell-Savours
It is not Labour party policy.

§ Mr. Skinner
I should have said "suggested" Labour party policy or "alleged" Labour party policy. As I have said, we have seen an extension of the practice that is deprecated by Mr. Speaker. If the practice is deprecated during oral questions, it is my opinion that the action of the Secretary of State for the Environment this afternoon should be deprecated and that it should be stopped.

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
That is entirely a matter for the Minister. The points of order have been noted. We have a busy day before us and we must now proceed with the debate.

§ Mr. Campbell-Savours
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
Is it a new point of order?

§ Mr. Campbell-Savours
I did ask for a ruling. I ask that you, Madam Deputy Speaker, with Mr. Speaker, should establish the cost of answering the question which was the subject of my point of order. It would set a precedent for those of us who wish to establish whether we are being fairly treated.

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
I have known the hon. Gentleman for a long time. I am familiar with the way in which he is able to elicit answers from Ministers. I suggest that he might take up the matter himself and seek the answer from Ministers by the various means available to him.