7. Mr. leuan Wyn JonesTo ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on the operation of the appeals procedure set up following the regrading of hospital staff.
§ Mr. Kenneth ClarkeThese appeals are being dealt with under a long-standing general Whitley council agreement to which the nursing trades unions are a party and which they insisted should apply to the recent regrading exercise. I have asked health authority chairmen to adopt a range of measures aimed at ensuring that the appeals process works quickly and effectively.
Mr. JonesWill the Minister tell the House to what extent his Department will make available overtime payments or extra staff, because of the increased workload of managers, regrading officers and union stewards involved in these appeal procedures? If that is his Department's intention, will he make available extra resources to cover that extra work?
§ Mr. ClarkeAll the staff who, in some places, have to put in a considerable amount of work to handle these appeals are being paid accordingly, and in line with national agreements which we have with them. I accept that in some places the appeals process is putting a considerable extra burden on management and in some places, no doubt, on the union side, too. We understand 862 that shop stewards are finding it difficult to keep up with the number of appeals. It is a pity that in many places nurses and midwives have been encouraged to put in appeals, regardless of the merits. I believe that everyone is slightly paying the price for the fact that the system was, I dare say, deliberately overloaded in some places. I know that everyone is trying to ensure that the process is carried out and that cases of individual mistake are corrected as soon as possible.
§ Mr. Neil HamiltonIs it not the case that the vast majority of nurses and midwives are satisfied with the results of the regrading exercise and that a large number of the appeals against the decisions are politically motivated by the National Union of Public Employees and Confederation of Health Service Employees, which is using its own members—gulling and duping them and using them as their political war-horses rather than acting in their best interests by accepting what they have been given?
§ Mr. ClarkeI believe that my hon. Friend's assertion is self-evidently true throughout the country. He accurately describes the position of the majority of nurses and midwives. COHSE, NUPE and the Labour party have tried to stir up discontent and have tried to make political capital out of the situation. Unfortunately, by overloading the appeals procedure in some cases, they have been getting in the way of those people who have a genuine query about their grading and wish to have it sorted out by a sensible appeals process.
§ Mr. CanavanWill the Minister make it clear to all health boards that enough additional resources will be made available to meet the results of successful appeals, and that the number of successful appeals will not be predetermined by the amount of money in the kitty?
§ Mr. ClarkeThe appeals are being determined in line with the guidelines which were set out when we started. They are not in any way determined by any artificial cash limit. I am satisfied that we have funded this generous nurses' and midwives' pay settlement in full. Indeed, we funded it in full using the health authority's own figures. I do not foresee any cash problems arising as a result.
§ Dame Elaine Kellett-BowmanI thank my right hon. and learned Friend for remedying the anomaly whereby fully qualified nurses when entering midwifery training were actually losing money, thus obviating the number of appeals. Will he now ensure that any charge nurse undertaking additional responsibilities—for example, moving from grade I to grade 2—will receive some salary increase at the same time?
§ Mr. ClarkeWe certainly were flexible on some of the points which arose in our discussions on the grading structure. One of the changes that we made was to deal with the problem of midwifery students, and I am glad that my hon. Friend is satisfied with the result.
Nurses will steadily pursue their careers by moving to posts that carry heavier responsibilities. For the first time we have a career structure and a grading system for nurses which assure that, as a nurse acquires more skill and responsibility, money is targeted upon the post that he or she then occupies. I believe that most nurses look forward to the opportunities with which they are now presented.
§ Mr. Allen McKayDoes the Minister realise that it was disastrous to undertake the regrading exercise at the present time? Is he aware that a lot of nurses are dissatisfied and will be leaving the Health Service? Can he guarantee that payment will be retrospective? As the reviews will take years rather than months, will interest payments be paid on top of the pay awarded?
§ Mr. ClarkeI am sorry that the hon. Gentleman thinks that it was wrong to regrade the nursing profession and to provide the career structure that I have just described. The hon. Gentleman is criticising not only myself, the Government and the management of the NHS, but all the trade unions which were party to the regrading exercise and which, at first, welcomed the career structure that it created.
We are trying to deal with the appeals as rapidly as possible and if it turns out that any nurse was incorrectly graded when the exercise was first carried out, that post will be graded properly and any back pay due from last April will be paid to the nurse in question.