SHORT TITLE, COMMENCEMENT AND EXTENT (Hansard, 17 January 1989)

§ Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
I beg to move amendment No. 86, in page 4, line 2, leave out subsection (2).
Anyone reading the past two days' debates on this legislation would realise that we have been through a farcical procedure. Most people will marvel that the Government have pushed through the measure that they claimed would give the Security Service a statutory basis with so little input and scrutiny by the House. It is also amazing that the Government think they can get away 305 with a measure that leaves all the power in the hands of the Home Secretary and Prime Minister. They claim a statutory basis, but the Bill leaves all decision-making to Government Ministers—nothing is set down in statute.
The final affront is the commencement order at the end of the Bill. Clause 7(2) reads: (2) This Act shall come into force on such day as the Secretary of State may by an order made by statutory instrument appoint, and different days may be appointed for different provisions or different purposes. That means that the Secretary of State wants a blank cheque for deciding how much of the legislation he will bring into force. He has just told my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, South (Mr. Cryer) that he will wait until the end of the legislation process, until the Bill has completed its progress through the House of Lords, before deciding how and when the legislation will come into operation. That is totally unsatisfactory.
This is a simple measure and there is little in it that needs to be brought in over a lengthy period. It would be quite simple for the Government to follow the precedent set by other Bills and not insert a commencement clause, in which case the legislation would come into operation with the Royal Assent. The Government claim that the measure contains checks and balances. If that is so, it is reasonable to ask for the whole measure or none of it. We do not want the Secretary of State deciding over several years when certain parts of the measure can come into operation while others do not operate at all.
We have some means of scrutinising statutory instruments, but we do not have procedures for scrutinising statutory instruments that are not laid. It is a gross abuse that measures containing regulating powers often go through the House and Ministers do not use those powers for many years afterwards. Sometimes they are never used, hut there is no way in which the House can scrutinise them. I seek from the Minister an assurance that the whole measure will be brought into operation at one time. He should not say that the first part of the Bill, which gives extra powers to the Secretary of State, will be brought into operation at once while the second part, which allows for some mild scrutiny, will not be brought in until later.
I hope that the Minister will accept the amendment because it would ensure that the whole of the legislation would be operative on Royal Assent. We should also have a proper Report stage so that hon. Members may return to the many issues that have entered the debate and which have not been satisfactorily answered. We should get answers here rather than having to wait and hope that the other place carries out the scrutiny that we should be allowed to carry out.

§ Mr. Cryer
I asked a question on clause 5 because I wanted to hear the Minister's comment before we came to this amendment. His comment at that time was as unsatisfactory as all his other comments. The Minister must have a strong sense of irony because he said that he would wait until he knows the shape of the Bill. Every amendment has been rejected and the Whips have been operating to get the majority of Conservative Members—most of whom have not troubled to listen to the debate—to vote. The Minister must either be very stupid-and I do not think that he is—or very ironic to say that he does not know the shape of the Bill. He knows its shape perfectly well because it is in the document before the Committee. He knows 99 per cent. of the shape of the Bill.
306 The Government know what will happen in the Lords. The Bill is not about rural buses for which a few Lords might come out of their castles and vote against Government legislation. The Minister knows that the Bill will go easily through the Lords. Clause 7(2) does not even say that the Minister will bring in clauses by order when he chooses. It says: different days may be appointed for different provisions or different purposes. That means that the Minister can bring into operation any section of the legislation. He can bring into operation part of a section or part of a schedule, and that is unusual. As my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Mr. Bennett) has said, statutory instruments will be dealt with by the negative procedure. We do not object to that. However, we object to the fact that the Minister is not able to give an assurance.
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We want an assurance that, when it is brought into operation, the Bill will include the appointment of the director-general to oversee the efficiency of the service. and we want clause 4 to be included because it will enable the commissioner to keep an eye on the Minister in the exercise of his function in issuing what have been described as burglary warrants. The Minister should be reasonable and agree to introduce the safeguard clauses at the same time as the rest of the measure. It would be an outrage, with an elective dictatorship trampling on the rights of Parliament, if the Minister failed to give that assurance.
Clause 5 must also come into force at the same time., because it safeguards people who feel abused by the burglary warrants. As it establishes a tribunal to deal with complaints, it must be introduced early, and it is no excuse for the Minister to say that he does not know the final shape of the Bill. The Government must heed the words of the former Lord Chancellor and not adopt the stance of an elective dictatorship, casting aside their responsibilities to Parliament. It would be a disgrace if they did that.

§ Mr. John Patten
I hope I can reassure the hon. Member for Bradford, South (Mr. Cryer) and the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Mr. Bennett). The provision which the amendment standing in the name of the latter would delete is the usual formula which permits flexibility in the implementation of any measure. An example of that is the Criminal Justice Act 1988 which the Home Secretary and I took through the House. That is now being implemented quickly and in various stages.
On present indications, we have no plans to bring this measure into force, should it become law, in a piecemeal fashion. It is our intention that the whole measure should come into force as soon as practicable after Royal Assent.

§ Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
The hon. Gentleman uses the phrase "as soon as practicable." Will he give an indication of the time scale? He will be aware that many pieces of legislation do not contain commencement orders and come into operation as soon as they receive Royal Assent.

§ Mr. Patten
The Bill as drafted is coherent and inter-related and all of a piece. It is the intention of' the Government, as soon as Royal Assent is achieved, to bring it into play as soon as possible.