Engineering Degrees (Hansard, 28 February 1989)

§ 9. Mr. Patrick Thompson
To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many students started first degree courses in engineering during the last three years.

Mr. Jackson
In 1987 there were 19,300 first year full-time first degree students studying engineering at higher education institutions in Great Britain. In 1986 and 1985 there were 19,000 and 18,200 students respectively.

§ Mr. Thompson
Does my hon. Friend agree that although, thanks to the Government's successful policies, engineering output is growing strongly, the number of applications for engineering places has declined? Does he agree that that is not a healthy situation, and can he spell out what steps he and his colleagues are taking to improve it?

Mr. Jackson
We accept the advice that we receive from employers and from the Engineering Council that there is a need to sustain and increase the number of engineering graduates to maintain our competitiveness. We have taken a number of initiatives—the engineering and technology programme, the manufacturing systems engineering programme and the hi-tech programme—but we are not satisfied with the progress being made. That is why we have announced a series of studies—and we are grateful to the Engineering Employers Federation and the Engineering Council for supporting them—to try to find out more about the reasons for the unacceptable high wastage rate in engineering courses, and also to find out more about the attitudes of suitably qualified school leavers to the study of engineering.

§ Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
Does the Minister accept that, in the past, many youngsters left school at 16, obtained good engineering apprenticeships and got into higher education as a result of day release and night school? As that avenue has now been stepped, because of the decline in the number of apprenticeships, is it not high time to reform education for 16 to 18-year-olds to make it more appropriate for people going into engineering? Does the Minister also accept that the present A-level syllabus does nothing to encourage people to go into engineering?

Mr. Jackson
The hon. Gentleman will have noticed the programme for an integrated engineering degree sponsored by the Engineering Council, which the Government have broadly welcomed. On the broad issue of 16 to 18-year-olds, the hon. Gentleman should refer 10 the speech, which I mentioned earlier, made by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to the Association of Colleges for Further and Higher Education. It showed the way in which the Government are addressing the subject. I notice, meanwhile, that the policy attitude of the hon. Gentleman's party seems to be shifting.

§ Mr. John Marshall
Does my hon. Friend care to make a statement about the impact of the thoroughly unprofessional activities of the Association of University Teachers on the individuals who have entered engineering studies? Will he give an assurance that the Government will not give in to the unprofessional blackmail being practised by the AUT?

Mr. Jackson
The Government deplore the line being taken by the AUT. We consider it to be irresponsible and damaging to the aims that the AUT and its members claim to hold dear, and we condemn it utterly.

§ Mr. Andrew Smith
Are the Minister and Government not concerned that, notwithstanding the initiative to which he referred, Britain still produces barely two thirds the number of engineering graduates as does, for example, 151 West Germany? Moreover, is the Minister aware that serious concern is now being expressed about the standards and quantity of first degree courses in this country? Has the Minister read the article in the National Institute Economic Review on the subject and what does he propose to do about it?

Mr. Jackson
I have already expressed the Government's concern about the number of engineering graduates. There is a controversy about the international comparisons to which the hon. Gentleman refers. He will have studied the reports in the Department of Employment Gazette on that point. The Government are taking various steps, such as the survey that we are undertaking to find out more about the attitudes and motivation of engineering students. I must emphasise the importance and relevance to all this of the changes we are making in schools, such as the broadening of the school curriculum through the national curriculum, which will have a major impact.