Machine Safety (Hansard, 7 February 1989)

§ Mr. Teddy Taylor (Southend, East) (seated and covered):
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. This is probably the most ridiculous and irrelevant exercise in which I have ever engaged. I am about to express a view on something that has already been approved by the Council of Ministers, something that has already happened, making our views irrelevant and making the House look completely stupid. May I ask whether it is in order to have the vote before you have announced the decision on whether the amendment has been selected?

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Harold Walker)
Order. I apologise to the hon. Gentleman. I understood that Mr. Speaker's decision not to select the amendment had been communicated to him. As for his other remarks, they are not a matter for the Chair, as I am sure he recognises; but doubtless they will have been heard.

§ Mr. Taylor
Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I do not want to be silly, but may I appeal to you somehow to get the two sides together to go to the Procedure Committee? What the blazes is the point of hon. Members coming here to express an opinion on something that has already been agreed? Can we not at least accept that on this issue the sovereignty of the House has disappeared?
Tonight and on Thursday hon. Members are being asked to vote on something that has happened, and on which the views of the House of Commons are of no consequence whatever. Like other hon. Members, I came here to play a part in democracy. What is the point of asking hon. Members to vote for something that does not matter at all—to express an opinion on something that has already happened, and applies to us all? Surely the House of Commons must make some sense. We are here as democrats to make decisions on things that matter, but on Thursday we shall be discussing something on which, because it has already happened, our views are completely irrelevant.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
I have considerable sympathy with the views that the hon. Gentleman has expressed, but these are not matters for the Chair. If the hon. Gentleman feels that the matter is appropriate for the Procedure Committee to consider, perhaps he ought to make a 952 submission to that Committee. As I said earlier, what he has said will doubtless have been heard. In any case, it will be on the record.

§ Mr. Frank Cook (Stockton, North)
Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker—

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman will cover himself properly.

§ Mr. Cook (seated and covered)
Would you have the courtesy, Sir, to explain to the House why hon. Members must endure the inverse convention of sitting here with a hat on while you can answer points of order standing in the normal way, with your head bare? Is this not a means of making hon. Members look ridiculous, and deterring them from raising points of order during a Division?

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
The hon. Gentleman must riot hold me responsible for the conventions, traditions and Standing Orders of the House. That is a matter for the House. And when the hon. Gentleman talks about bald heads—well, with respect—

§ Mr. Cook
Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I did not mean to imply that I held you responsible. I thought that perhaps you, from your vantage point of vastly greater experience than mine, might be able to explain the reasons for this particular requirement of the Standing Orders.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
I would not dream of trying to explain to the House the reasons for our Standing Orders. If the hon. Gentleman was suggesting that on future occasions I should be appropriately covered, he might be prepared to have a whip-round for a wig for me.

Division No. 84]	[1.49 am
AYES
Amos, Alan	Hunt, John (Ravensbourne)
Arbuthnot, James	Irvine, Michael
Ashby, David	Jack, Michael
Beith, A. J.	King, Roger (B'ham N'thfield)
Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke)	Knapman, Roger
Boswell, Tim	Knowles, Michael
Bowis, John	Lee, John (Pendle)
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter	Maclean, David
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)	McLoughlin, Patrick
Burns, Simon	McNair-Wilson, Sir Michael
Carrington, Matthew	Moynihan, Hon Colin
Carttiss, Michael	Neubert, Michael
Chapman, Sydney	Norris, Steve
Chope, Christopher	Paice, James
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest)	Porter, David (Waveney)
Coombs, Simon (Swindon)	Shaw, David (Dover)
Cran, James	Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb')
Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g)	Shepherd, Cohn (Hereford)
Dorrell, Stephen	Skeet, Sir Trevor
Durant, Tony	Stern, Michael
Favell, Tony	Summerson, Hugo
Fishburn, John Dudley	Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Freeman, Roger	Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N)
Garel-Jones, Tristan	Twinn, Dr Ian
Gill, Christopher	Waddington, Rt Hon David
Gregory, Conal	Wallace, James
Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N)	Wardle, Charles (Bexhill)
Gummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn	Widdecombe, Ann
Harris, David	Wood, Timothy
Heathcoat-Amory, David
Howarth, Alan (Strat'd-on-A)	Tellers for the Ayes:
Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W)	Mr. Kenneth Carlisle and
Hunt, David (Wirral W)	Mr. John M. Taylor.

NOES
Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE)	Haynes, Frank
Barron, Kevin	McCartney, Ian
Battle, John	Meale, Alan
Bennett, A. F. (D'nt'n & R'dish)
Cohen, Harry	Tellers for the Noes:
Cook, Frank (Stockton N)	Mr. Bob Cryer and
Dixon, Don	Mr. Dennis Skinner.
Dunnachie, Jimmy