§ 8. Mr. CranTo ask the Secretary of State for Transport what studies have been undertaken by his Department as to the likely annual cost to industry of traffic congestion on Britain's roads.
§ Mr. ChannonThe costs of road congestion are clearly substantial, although there are no reliable estimates of the total costs.
§ Mr. CranI am sure that my right hon. Friend is aware that the industrial community has estimated that traffic congestion in this country is costing British industry about £6,000 million per annum, which illustrates how difficult it is for companies in the north of England and which are trying to export. Against that background, does my right hon. Friend agree that one solution is an accelerated construction programme, but that another is a review of planning methods, which seem to allow a minority to hold up infrastructure expenditure for far too long?
§ Mr. ChannonOn the first point, it is right to review the roads programme which, as my hon. Friend knows, is done every two years. We will come forward with proposals in the next few months. I hope that they will be to his satisfaction and to the satisfaction of most other hon. Members. On planning permission, there is a difficult balance between allowing people to have their democratic rights and not having unreasonable delays. Rather than concentrate so much on planning delays, I have been concentrating on the internal procedures, which take a considerable time—and have done for many years—before a road reaches the planning inquiry stage. I have identified ways of cutting that time by a considerable margin and I look forward to roads being built far more quickly than in the past.
§ Mrs. Margaret EwingIs it not gross complacency for the Secretary of State to base his projections on what he himself says are unreliable statistics, especially against the background of looking forward to the 1992 European market? Is it not extremely important for our industrialists in all areas of the United Kingdom to ensure that they have adequate communications and to ensure that export-led industries are not disadvantaged? His own proposals pale into insignificance when we consider the projects being undertaken at present by the French Government.
§ Mr. ChannonIt is a bit early for the hon. Lady to accuse me of complacency. I have already announced that we shall have a roads review and a programme announcement in the next few months and when the hon. Lady has studied that, she will be in a position to decide whether she thinks it is adequate. I strongly agree with her that it is in the interests of all parts of the United Kingdom that we should have a decent roads programme so that people can get their goods from the United Kingdom to the continent—[HON. MEMBERS: "And railways."] We must also improve the railways, but the hon. railways, but the hon. Lady's question concerned roads, and I agree with the thrust of her comments.
§ Mr. AdleyCan my right hon. Friend confirm that it is not his opinion that the only way of dealing with congestion on the roads is to build yet more roads?
§ Mr. ChannonIt is not my only way of dealing with congestion on the roads. I am extremely anxious—as, I know, is my hon. Friend—that the advent of the Channel tunnel should lead to a substantial increase in the amount of freight carried by British Rail. I look forward to British Rail's report and its proposals for achieving that north of London. We shall receive that report some time this year. I am certain that, if British Rail handles the matter correctly—as it must and will—substantial opportunities 647 will be created for businesses in the north and elsewhere to send their goods economically and, above all, reliably, to the continent. That will benefit both BR and the road user.
§ Mr. PrescottDoes the Secretary of State agree with the Secretary of State for Wales that there is insufficient expenditure on our roads infrastructure, and does he agree with the CBI's estimate that insufficient expenditure is costing industry £15 billion? After 10 years of this Government will he now agree that average expenditure on roads in real terms has been higher under Labour than under the Conservative Government?
§ Mr. ChannonI certainly do not agree with the last part of the hon. Gentleman's question. I am surprised that he makes that boast. No doubt he was wrongly reported in the Morning Star, and that is very understandable—
§ Mr. PrescottDo you read the Morning Star?
§ Mr. ChannonYes, every morning, that is where I find the hon. Gentleman's most authoritative speeches. According to the Morning Star, he is against all this expenditure. I am glad to learn that that is not the case and that he is in favour of it. I agree that we must have an adequate road infrastructure to meet the challenges of 1992 and the turn of the century. I have not read the remarks made by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales to which the hon. Gentleman referred but I seldom, if ever, disagree with my right hon. Friend.