§ 8. Mr. John EvansTo ask the Secretary of State for Employment how many people have been employed in service industries in the north-west region in each of the last three years, expressed as a proportion of the labour force; and if he will give comparable figures for the south-east.
§ Mr. LeeIn each of the past three years, about two thirds of all employees in employment in the north-west were in service industries, compared with three quarters of all employees in employment in the south-east.
§ Mr. EvansDoes the Minister acknowledge that well-paid service jobs have mushroomed in the south-east to offset the decline in manufacturing, but that although manufacturing jobs have also collapsed in the north-west there has been no such growth in well-paid service jobs in that area? What plans does the Minister have to create a fairer distribution of those well-paid service jobs to areas such as the north-west?
§ Mr. LeeThe hon. Gentleman is not being his usual fair and generous self. There has been a rise in employment in service industries in the north-west of about 7 per cent. The hon. Gentleman must not confuse the prosperity of manufacturing industry with the numbers of people actually employed in manufacturing. I take the example of Pilkington, a company that he knows well in his constituency and which he frequently and rightly praises. Employment in that key manufacturing company has fallen from 18,000 in 1980 to about 6,000 now.
§ Mr. RoweDoes my hon. Friend accept that as part of the tremendous success of the Government's economic and employment policies, the position in the south-east has changed dramatically? Does he also accept that many people in the south-east would not mind at all if some Government jobs were moved further north? Will he assure us that he and his colleagues in the Government will look again at the south-east, which has for too long been regarded as the place with the highest standard of living in the United Kingdom but which is under enormous pressures for a variety of reasons and requires a new look to be taken at it?
§ Mr. LeeMy hon. Friend is right. Curiously enough, yesterday, when I was in Oldham opening the fifth "Industrious Oldham Exhibition", I came across a 175 manufacturer who some years ago had moved his manufacturing plant from Kent to Oldham. He had no regrets at all about the move. He is prospering in the constituency of the hon. Member for Oldham, Central and Royton (Mr. Lamond).
§ Mr. James LamondThe Minister was welcomed in Oldham, where he saw the Labour council's efforts to attract manufacturing jobs to the area. However, will he reconsider his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for St. Helens, North (Mr. Evans)? It was difficult to follow the Minister, but perhaps he meant that the unfortunate result of investment in manufacturing industry—such as in Pilkingtons and in textiles—has frequently been that, despite the prosperity, the numbers of employed in those industries have fallen. If that is what the Minister is saying, does that not reinforce my hon. Friend's point that well-paid service jobs are needed in the north-west even more than they are in the south?
§ Mr. LeeI am glad to see that Opposition Members advocate the creation and support of well-paid service industry jobs, because that was precisely the point that I was endeavouring to get across. Perhaps, I did not completely succeed. I repeat that we must separate the prosperity of manufacturing industry from the numbers directly employed in it, which was why I gave Pilkingtons as an example. A service industry in the north-west that I know very well is the tourism and hospitality industry, jobs in that sector have increased considerably. Nearly 150,000 people are employed in tourism and hospitality in the north-west.
§ Mr. Neil HamiltonDoes my hon. Friend agree that it is most unfortunate that Opposition Members constantly talk down the north-west? Parts of the north-west, such as Cheshire, are booming because of the vast increase in service jobs. Certainly in my constituency, banks, insurance companies and a vast number of other firms are bringing many service jobs into the area. It does us no good to have the north-west constantly unfavourably compared with the south-east. In fact, parts of the north-west, because of prosperity, are exhibiting the same kind of strains as the south-east.
§ Mr. LeeMy hon. Friend is right, but he should not, with respect, expect too much from the Opposition too quickly. We have at least now an acknowledgement that well-paid service jobs are important.