HC Deb 25 October 1988 vol 139 cc157-9
5. Mr. McAvoy

To ask the Secretary of State for Employment when he next plans to meet the Trades Union Congress; and what subjects he proposes to discuss.

Mr. Fowler

I have no immediate plans to meet the TUC.

Mr. McAvoy

I thank the Minister for that answer. When eventually he meets the TUC, will he explain why the Government have removed from workers at GCHQ the fundamental right to belong to a trade union? Is he aware that those workers were commended for the part that they played in the Prime Minister's Falklands war? What possible excuse could the Government have for their attack on the rights of those workers and that slur on their patriotism?

Mr. Fowler

That was clearly the subject of a statement by my hon. Friend the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, who has responsibility for it. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher) should listen. As my hon. Friend said, action is necessary because, in the period 1979 to 1981, 10,000 days were lost at GCHQ as a result of industrial action.

Ms. Short

Two days.

Mr. Fowler

I do not believe that any Government could stand by and allow that kind of action to take place in a security installation.

Mr. Latham

Is it not extraordinary that, even in the depths of the recession, some industries were reporting major skill shortages? Should that not be discussed with the TUC so that we can give our training programme, and especially some of the remaining training boards, a jolly good shake up?

Mr. Fowler

Yes, it would be sensible for the Government and the TUC to discuss that aspect. NEDC is one area where we have been talking about just that. I underline what my hon. Friend has said. There are indeed skill shortages, and this emphasises the need for more training in this country.

Mr. James Lamond

Should not the Secretary of State be seeking a meeting with the TUC to apologise for the constant repetition by him, by other Ministers and by Tory Back Benchers of the claim that the TUC has turned its back on the unemployed, when he and those Ministers and Back Benchers were responsible for creating long-term unemployment, constantly denying having any responsibility for it and doing absolutely nothing about it except to make 24 changes in the method of counting in order to have a cosmetic effect on the figures?

Mr. Fowler

The Government have put forward the biggest training programme for long-term unemployed people not just in this country but anywhere in western Europe and are devoting a substantial amount of public finance to it. The TUC at its congress voted to boycott the programme, so it has indeed turned its back on the long-term unemployed in this country, and the public understand that only too well.

Mr. Roger King

Were my right hon. Friend to seek to meet the TUC, will he highlight the contrast in the attitude of the trade union movement in this country and the opportunities for jobs by comparing the situation in Dundee, when it was hoped that a Ford plant would be set up there, with the enlightened attitude at Bridgend, where Ford will indeed be investing, thanks to the co-operation of the unions in providing the right environment for that investment?

Mr. Fowler

Again, my hon. Friend is right, certainly with regard to Bridgend and the attitude of the Transport and General Workers Union in Dundee, where the only result was to turn its back on literally a thousand jobs. The Labour party and the TUC are turning their backs on unemployed people in this country in all kinds of ways. If they want to show real concern for unemployed people, they need to change their policies on training and inward investment.

Mr. Meacher

Will the Secretary of State reconsider the disgraceful decision to sack workers at GCHQ for no other reason than that they are members of a trade union? When will the Government ever learn that the right to membership of a trade union is not just a hallmark but a gurarantee of a free society? If the Government are genuinely interested in rooting out the unreliable, when will the Secretary of State learn that it is trade unionists who are the patriots and old Etonians who are the traitors?

Mr. Fowler

The last comment was silly, even for the hon. Gentleman. I know that he is running very hard for the shadow Cabinet, but he cannot get away with that kind of comment. Union action was targeted on GCHQ to gain publicity for a whole range of other issues, and 10,000 days were lost at GCHQ.

Ms. Short

Two days.

Mr. Fowler

In my view, the action taken by the Government is entirely justified.