United Nations (Hansard, 19 October 1988)

§ 7. Mr. Michael
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he last met the Secretary-General of the United Nations; and what was discussed.

§ Mr. Eggar
My right hon. and learned Friend met the Secretary-General on 27 September during his visit to the General Assembly. They discussed Afghanistan, Iran-Iraq, Namibia and Cyprus. The following day the Secretary-General was present at a confidential meeting of the Foreign Ministers of the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council.

§ Mr. Michael
Does the Minister accept that there is some concern that the subject of refugees was not higher on the agenda and that there are serious anxieties in parts of the world where Britain has a historic responsibility? I shall give two examples. What help and hope can the Minister offer to those who have to flee the savage internal war in Somalia? Is he aware that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees expressed concern at the false distinction drawn by Britain between political and so-called "economic" refugees? Will the Minister give us a straightforward reassurance that that false distinction will not govern decision-making? Will he ensure that those topics are high on the agenda the next time there is a meeting between British Ministers and the Secretary-General?

§ Mr. Eggar
There is, of course, a great deal of concern about the position of refugees, not only in the country that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned, but in a large number of others. We have recently made a major additional contribution to the UNHCR, particularly to assist it with the help it is giving to Hong Kong, and, as the hon. Gentleman is aware, there have been recent discussions with the Vietnamese authorities. I can assure him that I, other Ministers and my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs raise the plight of refugees and general policy towards refugees on appropriate occasions.

§ Mr. Wells
Will my hon. Friend congratulate the Secretary-General on the effective reactivation of the Security Council, especially over the Iran-Iraq conflict and Afghanistan? We hope that the strengthening of the Security Council will lead to a settlement in Cyprus., and of other difficult problems. May I congratulate our representative and ambassador in the United Nations on the constructive role that he played in that process? Is my hon. Friend satisfied wth the rate of progress in reforming the administration of the United Nations in line with the effective way in which the Security Council has been reformed?

§ Mr. Eggar
I quite agree with my hon. Friend. There have been some major developments in the United Nations, especially in the Security Council. I join him in paying tribute to our permanent representative, Sir Crispin Tickell, who had a major role in co-ordinating the five members of the Security Council over Iran-Iraq.
On the more general question of the reform of the United Nations, my hon. Friend is quite right in saying that much progress still has to be made. We are working hard with other countries to make sure that sensible reforms are introduced.

§ Sir Russell Johnston
Is the Minister aware that many people will be surprised that apparently there have not been any discussions with the Secretary-General about the immediate and ghastly plight of the Kurdish refugees? Has the Minister raised, for example, the refusal of Turkey and Iraq to allow United Nations' observers to visit the camps of the Kurdish refugees? Has he taken any action following the bombing attacks, allegedly with chemical weapons, on the 11th and 14th of this month?

§ Mr. Eggar
The hon. Gentleman is right. This is a matter of concern. We have been in touch with the Turkish Government and with other Governments in the region, as well as with United Nations agencies, and those discussions continue.

§ Sir Bernard Braine
Were there any discussions with the Secretary-General of the United Nations about the use of chemical weapons against defenceless Kurdish villages by the Iraqi army, and at the same time the continuation of the mass murder of political opponents of the Khomeini regime in Iran, and about whether it is desirable that those atrocities should be reported to the assembly of the United Nations?

§ Mr. Eggar
I understand my right hon. Friend's concern. We have urged that there should be a United Nations investigation of those serious allegations and incidents, but I regret to say that the Iraqi Government have refused to co-operate.

Mr. Robertson
On the subject of the Iraqi attacks on the Kurdish population, may I commend the Government for their recognition, albeit belated, of the compelling evidence that now exists about those Iraqi attacks? As one who recently visited refugee camps at Diyarbakir and Mardin in Turkey, I can say that the evidence seems overwhelming. It seems remarkable only that the Government took so long to come to that conclusion. I am sure that there is considerable unanimity among hon. Members of all parties that Iraq's conduct is unacceptable and unspeakable, and that simply condemning Iraq is not enough. It is essential to take some action and, like the American Congress, to threaten punitive economic consequences if Iraq does not immediately stop the chemical bombing of its Kurdish population and allow United Nations' observers to ensure that that country returns as quickly as possible to civilised conduct.

§ Mr. Eggar
I understand the hon. Gentleman's concern. I know that he paid that important visit and that he has a great deal of personal knowledge of the circumstances. However, I advise him that we condemned the action as soon as we felt that we had adequate evidence on which to do so. We had to wait for that evidence to accumulate. Further investigations will be extremely difficult to carry out without the full co-operation of the Iraqi Government. We have asked for that co-operation and the United Nations has also asked for it, but unfortunately the Iraqi Government have refused to co-operate.