PROCEEDINGS (Hansard, 11 November 1988)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Michael Forsyth)
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment.

§ The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Harold Walker)
With this it will be convenient to consider Lords amendments Nos. 7, 8 and 9.

§ Mr. Tony Worthington (Clydebank and Milngavie)
I want the Minister to respond to the amendments to clause 6 and perhaps he will, with the leave of the House, also address himself to amendment No. 5 and say why a decision was made to leave out "third" and insert "half".
It will also be helpful if the Minister will explain the role of the clerk. Even at this late stage, there is considerable ambiguity about that. Will it be possible, for example, for a teacher to serve as a school board clerk? If so, what problems does the Minister think might be associated with that event? At other stages teachers have been excluded from being holders of offices on the board, but it now seems that permission will be given for a teacher to serve as a clerk.
There is a further ambiguity. Clause 6 states that the school board shall appoint a clerk. Can that person be an employee of the regional council, and what will be the relationship between the council and its own employee in such a case? In Committee the Minister believed that volunteers could be used to undertake fairly onerous duties.
The relationship of the clerk to the school board remains vague. There is a possibility that a member of the board will also be the clerk to the board and have certain duties deputed to him or her. In other circumstances the clerk might not be a member of the board. It is unusual for a clerk to be a voting member, so some strange relationships could be created.
My final point is on amendment No. 7, which is really very odd. It means that the minutes of a meeting can be composed and approved at the same meeting. We are all aware that normal practice means that minutes of a board meeting are written and delivered to the next meeting of the board. What aspect of amendment No. 7 commended itself to the Minister to allow the highly unusual position where minutes might be written at a board meeting and approved at the same meeting? Perhaps the Minister can see in the amendment some virtue to which I am blind.

§ Mr. Michael Forsyth
Perhaps I can help the hon. Gentleman by referring to amendment No. 5 which has 671 been agreed by the House. It will increase the membership of non-board members on sub-committees from one third to one half. The proposal was made by the director of education in Dumfries and Galloway as the result of its splendid experiment in pilot school boards. The director of education suggested that the change should be made especially in respect of community schools, where larger numbers of outside people might be required.
The hon. Gentleman also asked about the role of the clerk. As he will recall, we had a long discussion in Committee on the clerk's role. The clerk's role is to serve the board and to take minutes. That role will be determined by the board itself.
The hon. Gentleman asked whether a teacher could be the clerk. I recall that Opposition Members were keen to argue in Committee that we should require the clerk to be a local authority employee. We decided that we should leave discretion in that matter to the boards. Therefore, the board may appoint a teacher or anyone else as clerk.
I was slightly surprised that the hon. Gentleman described amendment No. 7 as odd, because a very similar amendment was tabled by the Opposition in another place. Amendment No. 7 meets the concern expressed by Opposition Members and others that, without authentication, board minutes and those of committees might be open to challenge.

§ Sir Hector Monro (Dumfries)
I support my hon. Friend the Minister, and I am somewhat surprised that there is no education spokesman on the Opposition Front Bench. That is strange when we are discussing a major Scottish Bill. Perhaps the spokesman is absent because of the disarray after last night's disaster in Glasgow.
With regard to amendments on procedure, my hon. Friend will be aware that we have run a pilot scheme in Dumfries and Galloway. The scheme has been very satisfactory and issues of procedure have not arisen. The election of members, the arrangements for clerks, and other procedures have all worked satisfactorily. That shows that the amendments tabled in another place are worth while and fit in very well with the recommendations made by the Scottish Education Department to Dumfries and Galloway. The pilot scheme was excellent and it will help with the establishment of school boards later next year.