§ 3. Rev. William McCreaTo ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the present security in Northern Ireland.
§ 5. Mr. MolyneauxTo ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation in Northern Ireland.
§ The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Tom King)Since I last answered questions in the House on 28 July, 38 people have been killed in incidents in Northern Ireland arising from the security situation. This includes the eight off-duty soldiers brutally murdered near Omagh. Against this background I have recently been carrying out a detailed and comprehensive review of security measures in conjunction with the Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the General Officer Commanding the Army in Northern Ireland.
The security forces have shown great skill and courage in their defence of the community. The House will be aware of their successes in recent days in preventing a number of serious attacks and making a number of arrests. So far this year 308 people have been charged with serious offences, including 16 with murder. Almost 500 weapons, some 89,000 rounds of ammunition and more than 9,000 lb of explosives have been recovered. In addition the Garda Siochana has recovered 290 weapons, about 140,000 rounds of ammunition and more than 1,100 lb of explosives.
§ Rev. William McCreaIn the light of the Secretary of State's catalogue of atrocities in our Province, does he agree that it is far from peace, stability and reconciliation? Let us bear in mind the recent murder of a constituent of mine, Reserve Constable McCrone in county Fermanagh, and the massive find of bomb material. I congratulate the police officer who found it on his alertness, which has helped to save the Province from another onslaught by the IRA.
What extra measures will be taken to stop the onslaught of the IRA, now that we are facing the long dark winter nights and people are filled with fear about the future?
§ Mr. KingThe hon. Gentleman knows as well as all other hon. Members from Northern Ireland the many steps that have been taken in recent months by the security forces, some of which have undoubtedly contributed to the recent successes. No one can be ignorant of the greatly enhanced activity. I told the House that we would be examining the number of measures that might be taken. The House approved one of them on Tuesday night. I have tried to help the security forces in such a way that if they bring people suspected of serious crimes to court, they will have a good chance of getting convictions. I am also concerned that the guilty should receive the proper punishment for their crimes.
§ Mr. MolyneauxWith regard to last night's bomb attack on women and children in the Army homes complex near Londonderry, however desirable it may be to extend the protection accorded to such targets, is that not starting at the wrong end? Should not terrorists legally be taken out of circulation, and kept out of circulation?
§ Mr. KingI am not sure whether the right hon. Gentleman is going further than the answer that I gave. If he is advocating selective detention, he knows that we have no plans to introduce it. But I and my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister have made it clear that we rule nothing out and keep these matters under review.
§ Mr. GowDoes my right hon. Friend understand that a significant factor in the continuing insecurity in Northern Ireland is uncertainty about its constitutional future? Why does he persist in denying Members of this House, including the elected representatives of the people of Northern Ireland, the right to amend proposed legislation affecting Northern Ireland? Why does my right hon. Friend not follow the policy set out in the 1979 Conservative party manifesto and set up a regional council in Northern Ireland with widely devolved powers over local matters?
Finally, does my right hon. Friend understand that his continued assertion that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom would be accepted more readily in Northern Ireland and elsewhere if we truly governed Northern Ireland like the rest of the kingdom?
§ Mr. KingI always respect my hon. Friend's sincerity in these matters. There is no insecurity about the position of Northern Ireland, except that caused by many people who keep talking about uncertainty. The Government's position is clear, and so is that of the House, which has voted overwhelmingly for it. There will be no change in the status of Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom without the agreement of a majority in Northern Ireland. I have confidence in that majority and I often wish that more people who raise this point shared my confidence in it. That view, moreover, is overwhelmingly supported by successive Irish Governments. There is no question of insecurity.
In response to my hon. Friend's second point, I hope that there will be legislation that Northern Ireland Members and hon. Members from elsewhere will have a chance to amend. Without anticipating the Queen's Speech, I suggest to my hon. Friend that he may find plenty of opportunities in the coming Session.
§ Mr. StanbrookMy right hon. Friend has said that Northern Ireland is presently recognised as part of the United Kingdom. Unfortunately, the Anglo-Irish Agreement simply confirms Northern Irleland's existing constitutional status, but under Irish law the Province is part of the Irish Republic. My right hon. Friend has gained nothing from that exchange. I suggest to my right hon. Friend that if he wants to keep terrorists out of sight and out of the way during the emergency, he should institute a sentence of imprisonment for the duration of the emergency and not release any terrorists to go back on to the streets and commit terrorist crimes again.
§ Mr. KingI note what my hon. Friend says and will not comment further on his last point. The first part of his question makes my point absolutely. Here is a lawyer arguing and sowing in the minds of Northern Ireland people doubt and insecurity that does not exist. Everybody knows that the reality of the agreement is quite clear. There will be no change in the status of Northern Ireland without the agreement of a majority. If my hon. Friend does not know the present status of Northern Ireland, everybody else does, and its status will remain as it is unless a majority want to change it.
§ Mr. WinnickArising from the remarks of the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Gow), could the Secretary of State give us his views on whether the security and the political situation in Northern Ireland will be helped or hindered by the application from the North Down 472 Conservative Association to affiliate to the Conservative party, since the chairman of the Conservative party is very much against such affiliation?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Hon. Members must keep to the question on security.
§ Mr. Winnickrose—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Whenever the hon. Gentleman gets up he strays from the question on the Order Paper. Please keep to it.
§ Mr. McNamaraI congratulate the chairman of the Conservative party and the Secretary of State on yesterday's comments. May I raise with the Secretary of State the important matter of security at married quarters, about which the hon. Member for Mid-Ulster (Rev. William McCrea) spoke? There is concern that women and children should be properly protected. It is particularly nasty that within the anniversary of what happened at Enniskillen this attack should have been considered. Can the Secretary of State give confidence to the House that the necessary security measures will be taken to protect married quarters in Northern Ireland? The Opposition support what he said about the status of Northern Ireland, but, of course, we attach a particular political significance to article 1(c).
§ Mr. KingI am glad to see that the hon. Gentleman has signed up to articles 1(a) and 1(b). I will settle for that. Those articles in the Anglo-Irish Agreement show the reality of the situation and I see no prospect of their changing. The hon. Gentleman's first point is a serious one. The House will share my disgust at last night's attack. It is further confirmation that, for the IRA, women and children are fair game. I continue to ask myself what sort of cause can be furthered, or what credit or ambition can be built up for the future, by trampling over the bodies of women and children. I hope that the House will treat, as I do, the statements by the IRA and the attack with the contempt that they deserve. I assure the hon. Gentleman that I have already had discussions about security at married quarters and careful consideration is being given to taking the necessary security measures.
§ Mr. CormackIs my right hon. Friend aware that most people think that neither his resolve nor his sincerity should be called into question, and that doing so does no good to Northern Ireland or to the causes that we should all uphold.