HC Deb 02 November 1988 vol 139 cc1018-20
15. Mr. Allen McKay

To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what account he took, in fixing the rate support grant for Bradford city council for 1988–89, of information provided by the council on projected staffing levels; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Gummer

An authority's entitlement to block grant depends on the rate support grant settlement and on its total expenditure. My right hon. Friend took no account of individual local authority projected staffing levels in determining the RSG settlement for 1988–89.

Mr. McKay

It is regrettable that the Government took no notice of staffing levels. If they had, they would have noted that those levels were aimed at looking after the most needy in Bradford, the elderly, the young and the unemployed. Is it not a fact that Bradford Tory council, in making 9,000 people redundant over the next five years, in addition to the 25,000 already unemployed, will undermine the local economy and efforts to solve the inner urban problems of the area?

Mr. Gummer

It would be much better if the hon. Gentleman accepted the verdict of the electorate and allowed the council that they elected to make local decisions for itself, instead of constantly misinterpreting what the council is doing in a way that is wholly wrong and unacceptable.

Mr. Batiste

Does my right hon. Friend agree that ratepayers elsewhere can only benefit if their councils follow the excellent lead of the Conservatives in Bradford in cutting out waste and political appointments when making staffing decisions?

Mr. Gummer

Of course, it is up to Bradford council to make its own decisions, but the House will probably feel that, for example, the money that will now not be spent on a ludicrous nuclear-free zone will be better spent in other ways.

Mr. O'Brien

The Minister cannot deny that through the casting vote of the Conservative lord mayor of Bradford 9,000 men and women will lose their jobs, and the ripple effect wil mean further job losses in a city where 23,000 people are already looking for work. When will the Minister take action against the Right-wing Tory group which has taken over Bradford and is causing devastation in the area? Is it not time that he took action against that group rather than condemning Labour party members in other parts of the country?

Mr. Gummer

I can deny it, because the hon. Gentleman is wholly untruthful in what he has said[Interruption.] I withdraw that comment. The hon. Gentleman is wholly mistaken in what he has said. He is confusng that with the fact that a number of jobs will go to private enterprise, others will be redeployed and in the end others will not be filled. The result will actually be more jobs in Bradford because there will no longer be such a weight on the ratepayers, and that money can be used elsewhere. The hon. Gentleman must not ask this Government to interfere in the democratic process. We believe in local government and we do not believe in directing it from the centre.

Mr. Waller

Will my hon. Friend congratulate Bradford council on recognising that the local authority exists to provide services, not to increase its empire? Is he aware that those who pay the rate bills in Bradford in many cases are the same people who have had to reduce the number of their own employees so as to pay for the local government manpower that has greatly increased in Bradford in the past few years?

Mr. Glimmer

My hon. Friend is right. The people of Bradford have clearly decided that they would like their city to be run by politicians, not by the local unions. That is why the argument has taken place. It will be for the Bradford group to make its own decisions about how to run its own show. It seems to me likely, however, that if one cuts the costs of local government and spends the savings on those who are most needy, while ensuring value for money, one can also ensure that there are more jobs in the private sector so that unemployment in Bradford will fall and more and more people will vote Conservative as a result.

Mr. Cryer

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I will take points of order after the presentation of the Bill.