§ 14. Mr. PendryTo ask the Secretary of State for the Environment when he will next meet the chairman of the Football Association to discuss the future of English participation in European football.
§ Mr. MoynihanI met the chairman of the Football Association on Saturday 14 May, together with the president of UEFA and the president of the Football League. It was agreed that the decision on the re-admittance of English clubs was for UEFA and that it would take it in the light of my report of the domestic season and events during the European championships finals.
§ Mr. PendryWhen the Minister next meets the chairman of UEFA, will he give him, and all of us, some good news? Will the Minister tell him that he intends in future to speak up for our national game and highlight the successes of English football over the past three seasons? In particular, will the Minister praise those who attended last night's match when Manchester United, which would be returned to Europe should the ban be lifted, played the Italian champions AC Milan in front of a crowd of 37,392 and there were no arrests inside or outside the grounds? As this is not an isolated occasion, why is the Minister not being positive and saying that we should be back in Europe? Or will he continue to chicken out?
§ Mr. MoynihanI will always speak up for success and I will always speak out against hooliganism. For that reason I have been determined throughout the whole season to put in place a package of measures to deter hooliganism. As for the European championships in West Germany in June, I hope that the comprehensive approach to tackling the problem, particularly through police intelligence and co-ordination, will be successful. Of course I praise games where there have been no arrests, but I hope that the day will come when I need not comment on there being no arrests, because there never should be arrests at sporting venues.
§ Mr. AshtonIs the Minister aware that his record in supporting the application of British teams has been despicable this season? Why should innocent people who have committed no offence see their teams barred because of the antics of a few National Front supporters, who will be judged on their behaviour in Germany this summer? When will the Minister start backing British teams and praising British crowds for their good behaviour over the last three years?
§ Mr. MoynihanI recognise that the vast majority of football fans go along to enjoy the game and do not want to have anything to do with hooliganism. It is fair to say that the hooligan element is not a football fan element but a criminal element. Regrettably that criminal element has done enormous damage to our national game and to our reputation, not least at Heysel. I am determined to take every possible measure to ensure that the innocent are protected and that at every opportunity we bring to book the criminals—[Interruption.]—who have caused so much trouble for our national game.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I do not know what it is about Environment questions that always lead to an excited atmosphere.
§ Mr. John Carlislerose—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I endeavour to call hon. Members on a fair basis. The hon. Gentleman has had one supplementary question. I decide the order in which Members are called.
§ Mr. CarlisleI am very grateful to you, Mr. Speaker. Does my hon. Friend accept from me, as vice-chairman of the all-party football committee, that he has the full support of the Tory Benches in his determination to make the Football Association, the Football League and the European football authorities responsible for their own behaviour and that of their clubs? Does he agree that if more clubs had followed the example of Luton Town football club, worthy winners of the Littlewoods cup, in banning away supporters, with the result that there were no problems of hooliganism this season, all British clubs would be readmitted to Europe?
§ Mr. MoynihanI appreciate. recognise and support what Luton has done. It is deserving of support from both sides of the House. As my hon. Friend will know, the package of measures required to tackle hooliganism varies from ground to ground and circumstance to circumstance. It was for that reason that we took police advice on the level of membership schemes appropriate to deter hooligans at each and every ground in the Football League.
§ Mrs. Margaret EwingHas the Minister monitored the increasingly good behaviour of Scottish football fans, which has meant that no Scottish football teams have been banned from European competition, unlike their English counterparts? Therefore, we should not be talking about British teams in this context. Will he join the chief constable of Strathclyde in congratulating the football crowd at the Scottish cup final on Saturday on their good behaviour, in spite of the provocation of some unusual spectators?
§ Mr. MoynihanIn regard to the UEFA decision, I have always referred specifically to the readmission of English clubs, because that is what we are talking about. However, because of the record of previous years it has been necessary to put in place exceptional measures in preparation for the game on Saturday. I hope that those measures and the recognition by Scottish as well as English fans of the importance of having a trouble-free game on Saturday will he borne in mind, especially as we are on trial when it comes to UEFA's decision later this season.
§ Mr. FavellWill my hon. Friend take it from me that, contrary to the impression given by Opposition Members, the vast majority of people support him entirely in his view 948 that, until he is satisfied that British football fans can behave, under no circumstances should they be allowed to go abroad and bring shame and disgrace to this country?
§ Mr. MoynihanI am grateful to my hon. Friend for his support. There will never be a time when the Government can guarantee the behaviour of fans in Europe. However, I hope that the comprehensive package of measures to deter hooliganism will result in UEFA recognising that there has been a satisfactory improvement in our national game. [Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. We are not on the football terraces here—[Interruption.] Order. The hon. Member for Langbaurgh (Mr. Holt) does not help with his continual shouting across the Chamber.
§ Mr. Denis HowellWe shall be playing added time, I take it Mr. Speaker.
The Minister is correct to describe the evil people attached to football grounds here and abroad as criminals. However, if that is the case, why are the Government expecting football clubs to police those criminals and to pay the bill? Why are football clubs paying for the policing of their grounds if, as the Minister says, the problem has nothing to do with football clubs? Why does he expect the Football Association to have any control over evildoers abroad? That is something that it should not be expected to do. If this is the Government of law and order, when will their law and order policies bring peace to football?
§ Mr. MoynihanI have never said that the problem has nothing to do with football clubs. On the contrary, the package of measures requires decisive action by football clubs to deter the hooligans. The importance of the clubs providing the police inside their grounds is reasonable, as they are going into private property. Outside the football grounds the Government, through the police authorities, pay for extensive policing from the public purse. There is no doubt that the determination shown by the Government in association with the football authorities is absolutely essential if we are to solve these problems. We have to continue with such determination in the future.