HC Deb 23 March 1988 vol 130 cc349-51
8. Mr. Eadie

To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had recently with the Scottish Trades Union Congress on the Scottish economy.

Mr. Rifkind

I have had no recent requests from the Scottish Trades Union Congress for discussions on the Scottish economy. My hon. Friend the Minister with responsibility for industry and local government has, however, accepted an invitation to attend the STUC's annual congress next month. I met STUC representatives yesterday to discuss Ford.

Mr. Eadie

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that there is some concern in Scotland about the role that he is playing in furthering the Scottish economy? Why does he seem continually to denigrate the situation in Dundee? Why is it that every time he appears on the media he is destructive rather than constructive? Can he tell the House whether he was in touch with Ford yesterday, or whether he has been in touch with Ford today? Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the Scottish people do not trust him because of the "sit on your hands, do nothing" attitude that he adopted in relation to the proposed murder of the Scottish deep mining industry, which will result in the loss of 10,000 jobs?

Mr. Rifkind

The hon. Gentleman should acknowledge that, following my comments, the SSEB and British Coal have resumed negotiations on deep mining. The prospects for progress are indeed more encouraging than they seemed to be. I must confess that I find myself both amazed at and interested in the hon. Gentleman's early remarks. Having taken part in the negotiations that led to Ford deciding to go to Dundee in the first place, I do not need any lectures from him about my interest in this matter.

Mr. Fallon

Does my right hon. and learned Friend think it likely that the senior management of Ford in America will to change its mind about its investment in my home town of Dundee on a vote of 11 to 10 by the TUC? Which does he find more surprising: the intransigence of the TUC, or the shameful silence of the eight transport union-sponsored Labour Members?

Mr. Rifkind

The failure of Labour Members who are sponsored by the TGWU to make their position known is doing a great disservice to the interests of the Scottish economy. As the House may be aware, today the TUC ratified by a significantly larger majority the position taken by one of its committees recently. That is an important step in the right direction. However, it is unfortunate that the TGWU appears to maintain its opposition to that proposal in the vote that took place today. It is important that we should obtain some clarification from the TGWU as to whether in the light of today's vote, it now accepts the policy of the TUC.

Mr. McAllion

I was pleased to hear the Secretary of State at least leave a little chink of light open by saying that he might respond to the pleas made to him to intervene in support of the workers and the unemployed in Dundee. Is he aware that yesterday TGWU shop stewards at the Dagenham plant, which is widely regarded as the most militant in the Ford network in Britain, decided not to black any components if, and only if, the plant were located in Dundee? —[Interruption.] Given that the editorial in Scotland's leading national newspaper today pleaded with the Secretary of State to drop everything and go with Gavin Laird to plead with Ford, will he now respond to that plea and to the pleas of the people of Scotland?

Mr. Rifkind

Any evidence of real contact with the late 20th century by any elements in the TGWU is to be welcomed, and if Mr. Todd can repeat the views that we have been told are the views of the Dagenham members, that, too, would make an important contribution. Naturally, having been in part responsible for the original decision by Ford to come to Dundee, I have at least as much interest as the hon. Gentleman in doing anything within my power to ensure that the project still finds its way to Dundee. [Interruption.] Opposition Members will appreciate that I must use my best judgment about whether and in what way Ford could be asked to reconsider its decision. The TUC, somewhat belatedly, has now endorsed the agreement originally reached with Ford, and that is to be welcomed. On our present knowledge the TGWU, which is the main union which all along has been an obstacle to progress, has still not, so far as we are aware, changed its position in one significant way. If that is going to be altered, we must wait and hear what its view is. It is, indeed, necessary to find out whether Mr. Todd and his colleagues are now prepared to endorse the views of the TUC, the Government and of all who have spoken on this matter. I may say to hon. Gentlemen that if—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. This is a very important matter.

Mr. Rifkind

If Opposition Members are concerned about the matter, as I am sure they are, one contribution that could be made from the Opposition Benches would be for the Leader of the Opposition to give his support to the view that has now been endorsed by the TUC and by the Government.

Sir Hector Monro

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that this is one of the most miserable moments in trade union and Labour party history, in that we have lost 1,000 jobs in Scotland through a petty squabble? Will he say whether he has had any word from the Transport and General Workers Union that it is anxious to come to see him today to withdraw total opposition to its policy of the last week?

Mr. Rifkind

I have had no such notification. If the TUC and trade unions generally had, some weeks ago, adopted the position which they are reported as having adopted today, Ford would never have made the decision that was announced last Friday. We are now involved in an exercise to try to reverse the damage, which was totally unnecessary, and resulted solely from the most extraordinarily primitive attitudes still to be found in certain sections of the trade union movement.

Mr. Dewar

Yesterday in the House the Prime Minister quoted with great approval Mr. Gavin Laird of the AEU. Did the Secretary of State see Mr. Laird on the national news today saying that what happened this morning was a major breakthrough and that he was confident that the agreement would hold? Is it not the height of irresponsibility for a Government Minister to give the impression that he does not believe that that is the position? It would be tantamount to encouraging the Ford Motor company to lock and bar the door, which we want to see open. [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. I say again that this is a very important matter.

Mr. Dewar

Will the Secretary of State take the opportunity to welcome unreservedly the TUC's decision to endorse the Ford/AEU agreement? As the company said as recently as last week that the key condition was the single union deal, with the provision that the new plant would be independent of current national agreements—this morning's vote seems to give exactly that—is it not important that he clarifies his position? He has talked about clarification. Should he not make it clear that he will join me and everyone else in Scotland in urging the company in the changed circumstances to reconsider and reinstate the project? Can he give an assurance that he is making it clear to the company that in the Government's view the essential conditions have been met and the plant should now be built?

Mr. Rifkind

First of all, I have given more public support to Gavin Laird than either the hon. Gentleman or the Leader of the Opposition. Secondly, I have already welcomed the decision taken by the TUC today and only wish that it had been taken some time in the last five months. Thirdly, I am saddened that even today the hon. Gentleman has not felt able to add his weight to representations to Mr. Ron Todd and the Transport and General Workers Union to withdraw their opposition and give full support to the TUC. The deafening silence of the Labour party and its refusal to make one iota of criticism of the position taken by the Transport and General Workers Union is a total and unqualified disgrace and refutes any assertion it makes to have the interests of the Scottish economy at heart.

Mr. Speaker

Question No. 9, Mr. Steel.

Mr. Harry Ewing

That is an absolute scandal. It is an absolute disgrace.

Mr. Steel

I had intended to ask a supplementary question on Question No. 8.

Mr. Speaker

I am sorry, but I have called Question No. 9.