Anglo-Irish Agreement (Hansard, 30 June 1988)

§ 1. Sir Michael McNair-Wilson
To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with his opposite number in the Republic on amending the Anglo-Irish Agreement to enable Northern Ireland politicians to have a greater say in the governance of the Province.

§ The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Tom King)
None, Sir. The agreement is no obstacle to such a development.

§ Sir Michael McNair-Wilson
In his speech last night my right hon. Friend said that a devolved settlement would have major implications for the agreement, and the greater the devolution the wider the impact. In his use of the word "devolution," does my right hon. Friend restrict himself entirely to the concept of legislative devolution, or would any form of devolution create an Ulster interface to the agreement?

§ Mr. King
I referred to what I thought was the desirable ultimate objective. I am sure that my hon. Friend will have noticed that I used the phrase "to or towards devolution." In other words, I am certainly prepared to consider any proposals and alternatives that any hon. Members or others may wish to put forward.

§ Mr. Molyneaux
In the light of the views expressed in yesterday's debate by the spokesman for the official Opposition, the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, North (Mr. McNamara), and others who participated in the debate, is the Secretary of State prepared to consider, as an alternative to the present agreement, a new agreement that would achieve the aims and objectives of the earlier failed agreement, namely, peace, stability and reconciliation?

§ Mr. King
This is an issue that the right hon. Gentleman and I have discussed on a number of occasions, so he knows the answer. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the hon. Member for Peterborough (Dr. Mawhinney), reiterated it when he replied to the debate. The right hon. Gentleman must not seek to impose conditions on any discussions that might occur, as my hon. Friend said to the hon. Member for Belfast, East, (Mr. Robinson) last night. I have made it absolutely clear that I am prepared to enter into discussions with right hon. and hon. Members, without conditions.

§ Mr. Gow
Will my right hon. Friend address his mind once again to the policy that was set out by the late Airey Neave in the Conservative party manifesto of 1979, when the Conservative party committed itself, in the absence of devolved government, to setting up a regional council, or councils, with widely devolved powers over local matters? Mr. Neave and our party envisaged, not that there would be an Assembly with legislative powers, but that we should 509 govern Northern Ireland more closely in line with the way in which we govern Scotland, England and Wales. Will my right hon. Friend look at that again?

§ Mr. King
I have made clear to my hon. Friend and others what I think is the desirable objective. However, I have also made it clear that I wish to enter into discussions with the parties and other interested groups in Northern Ireland to consider the basis on which it might be possible to start the process of working and of taking some responsibility together for the affairs of the Province. To repeat what I said yesterday, it is no good people standing at a distance and saying that they are being treated as a colony, but refusing to make any effort to see how they might take greater responsibility for their own affairs.

§ Mr. Hume
Will the Secretary of State confirm that no party in Northern Ireland is excluded from the Anglo-Irish process? Apart from a party's ability to raise matters in the House, can it approach the Government at any time to have matters placed on the agenda of the Anglo-Irish Conference?

§ Mr. King
The mistake of the Unionist parties is to elevate the conference as though it were a method for the governance of Northern Ireland. That is a phrase that I corrected in the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Sir M. McNair-Wilson). The right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Molyneaux) completely misrepresented the position last night and implied that there would be joint authority. It is a fair opportunity for the Irish Government to put forward views and proposals. That opportunity is more peculiarly available to every hon. Member. I find it difficult to accept any criticism from people who singularly fail to use all the unique opportunities that are more immediately and directly available to them than are available to the Irish Government.

§ Mr. Bill Walker
Does my right hon. Friend accept that any proposals for a devolved legislative Assembly in Ulster are bound to have an impact across the Irish sea in Scotland? The Government should tread with some care in this matter, as we have seats in Scotland that are still at risk.

§ Mr. King
It may disappoint or appal my hon. Friend to discover that I was born in Glasgow and therefore have some understanding of Scottish issues. Having been born in Glasgow of a Welsh mother and an English father, and being Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, I am acutely aware of the differences in the United Kingdom.