HC Deb 29 June 1988 vol 136 cc355-7
10. Mr. John Marshall

To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement about the provision of higher education in Scotland.

Mr. Michael Forsyth

The number of students in higher education in Scotland has risen steadily since 1979 and is higher now than ever before. Participation rates are above those in Great Britain as a whole. I am confident that our universities and colleges will be able to meet the increasing demands from employers for highly qualified manpower, while still maintaining standards.

Mr. Marshall

Does my hon. Friend agree that these statistics demonstrate how well Scotland is doing through the Union under this Government? Does he agree also that in future it is much more important to increase the number of places in higher education than to maintain a system of student support that is the most generous in the free world?

Mr. Forsyth

I agree with my hon. Friend, who speaks with great authority on these matters as a graduate of St. Andrews university and as a former lecturer at two of our universities in Scotland. He is right to point out the importance of the number of students in higher education, both in universities and elsewhere. Contrary to popular belief, the total funding of our universities has increased during the period that this Government have been in power, partly through their efforts at obtaining funding from elsewhere.

Mr. Nigel Griffiths

Is the Minister aware that the previous answer is wholly unacceptable, in that since 1986 the Government have cut grants to the eight Scottish universities by more than £12 million? [Interruption.] This year Edinburgh university faces a deficit of £3 million, Aberdeen university faces a deficit of £1 million, and Glasgow university faces a deficit of £500,000, and the hooligan interjections of the hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Forth) will not change that. In short, the future of many of our brightest Scots is being blighted by this Government through their cuts in education and in funding to universities.

Mr. Forsyth

If the answer is unacceptable to the hon. Gentleman, it is because it is the truth. I accept that a party that has no policies must rely on claim and counterclaim. The hon. Gentleman has a constituency interest in Edinburgh, which, for research funding, is one of the top four universities in the United Kingdom.

Mr. Griffiths

No thanks to the Minister.

Mr. Forsyth

The hon. Gentleman may say that, but last year it received £18 million in research grants and contracts, including the largest grant ever awarded by the Natural Environmental Research Council. The hon. Gentleman should take account of the Fraser of Allander Institute report—an institute that is hardly a friend of the Government—which showed clearly that, in real terms, the income of Scottish universities has increased substantially.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Does my hon. Friend agree that the emotional exaggeration of the hon. Member for Edinburgh, South (Mr. Griffiths) does nothing to carry forward the cause of university education in Scotland? Does he further agree that although universities in Scotland have been successful in recent years in obtaining funding from sources other than the Government, it would be right to bring to bear on our right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science the fact that there is a limit to that funding? Are not teaching and fundamental research the primary responsibility of Government?

Mr. Forsyth

I agree that the UGC's allocation system applies the same criteria to all universities in Great Britain, which the majority of the Scottish universities wish to continue. It is true that Aberdeen's funding from the UGC has declined by £7.5 million, but it is also true that its total income has increased by £190,000 because of its efforts to find additional money. If the Scottish universities are obtaining more funds and becoming less dependent on the Government, surely that is a far healthier position for them to be in and one in which academic freedom can flourish.

Mr. Norman Hogg

As the Minister has read the Fraser of Allander report, does he agree with its finding that the impact of the cuts in Scottish universities will amount to a cut of £33 million in the Scottish economy by 1990? What is the merit in making those cuts in the academic life of our universities? Who will benefit from cuts that damage academic life, the local economies where universities are based and the economy of Scotland? Who will be the gainers from that policy?

Mr. Forsyth

I am astonished to hear the hon. Gentleman saying that. If he accepts the Fraser of Allander report's conclusion that the overall net resources to Scottish universities have increased because they have found private and other sources, how can he argue that there has been a net loss to the Scottish economy? The net effect is a net increase to the Scottish economy. Do the Opposition believe that only public expenditure creates wealth, and not money that comes from the private sector?