HC Deb 21 June 1988 vol 135 cc956-8
5. Mr. Campbell-Savours

To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what recent assessment he has made of the effects of his proposals for the funding of education in London, following abolition of the Inner London education authority, on the quality of education in London and the south-east.

Mr. Kenneth Baker

From 1990 LEAs in London will, under the provisions of the Local Government Finance Bill, be financed in the same way as other authorities in England. Our education policy in inner London is to improve the quality and increase the accountability of the education service.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

Is it not incongruous that the hon. Member for Dartford (Mr. Dunn), the Minister who is responsible for these matters, should be begging me to go to the Inner London education authority to secure funds for the Merchant Navy college, Greenhithe, which is in his constituency, when he is cutting the money for ILEA and promoting its abolition? Can we not, on a more bipartisan basis, find some way forward whereby the future of this college, this national facility, can be safeguarded?

Mr. Baker

When the hon. Gentleman talks about a bipartisan policy, that is the time to count the spoons.

Mr. Andrew F. Bennett

Answer the question.

Mr. Baker

I am about to answer it. I know that the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) takes a great interest in the future of the Merchant Navy college in Dartford. The future of the college is a matter for ILEA, and I understand that ILEA has been reviewing its future for many months. That is a quite separate question from the transfer of responsibilities to the boroughs. I understand that ILEA will be taking a decision shortly.

Mr. Jacques Arnold

Does my right hon. Friend not find it extraordinary that when the Inner London education authority takes an interest in the Merchant Navy college in Dartford, all of a sudden it wishes to abolish it? Does he not consider that it is more than a coincidence that that abolition by ILEA, a Labour-controlled authority, should be in the constituency of one of the Education Ministers?

Mr. Baker

As I have already said, I am rather on the sidelines, because it is a further education college. Therefore, it does not come to me in my role as the Secretary of State for Education and Science. I understand that ILEA has been looking at the future of the college for a very considerable time, and it is for ILEA to decide whether it wishes to retain it.

Mr. Straw

Does the Secretary of State accept that the financing and future arrangements for the transfer of ILEA to the London boroughs is a matter of great importance? That is why, despite the fact that we profoundly disagree with the policy, Labour London boroughs, in the interests of the children of London, are co-operating with a will to secure an orderly transfer. Does the Secretary of State accept that he needs to measure up to his responsibilities? Since the service could not cope with cuts during the transfer, when does he intend to guarantee the finances of ILEA? If it is important to him, can he explain why twice as many civil servants are working on the education of a few hundred children in city technology colleges as are working on a transfer of education that affects 270,000 children in London?

Mr. Baker

The hon. Gentleman asks me how many of my civil servants are working in the unit. I gave him the reply to that question in Hansard. The hon. Gentleman should be aware that many other civil servants in other parts of my Department, at middle management and senior management level, are concerned with ILEA. I am very pleased that since the decision of the House of Lords all individual London Labour boroughs have visited my Department's unit. It is quite clear that, constructively, and apparently with some relish in many cases, they are planning to become local education authorities in 1990, when the boroughs will inherit all the schools and colleges as going concerns and will have the resources to maintain them.

Mr. Ashdown

HON. MEMBERS: "Where is the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith)?"—The House may be assured that I would rather have a leadership election in my party than no leader at all, as in the Labour party. [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. Let us return to the question.

Mr. Ashdown

Will the Secretary of State say what estimates, if any, he has made of the extra costs to be imposed on London ratepayers because of the appointment of chief education officers and senior officers, some at £40,000 a year, in every London borough, and why he believes that that will reduce the cost of education in London, about which he has complained so much?

Mr. Baker

We are glad to see the hon. Gentleman back in his place. Clearly he is keeping the education portfolio warm, just in case matters do not work out.

As to the cost being borne by inner London boroughs, I have already said that there will be grants for the current financial year of about million, and of about 10 million for next year, to assist them in meeting the expense of preparing for the 1990 transfer.