§ Mr. Cran
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the figures that he has given. Does he agree that maximum contact between the Civil Service and business is beneficial to both, as each can learn from the other? I hope and expect that my right hon. Friend will come back in a year's time with even better figures.
§ Mr. Luce
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There has been an increase of 400 per cent. in secondment to and from the Civil Service since 1979, but from very low starting figures. I wish to see a substantial increase in that and other areas. I believe that direct entry at a later age by people with experience in other walks of life is extremely healthy and strengthens the Civil Service. I am currently reviewing other ways in which we can assist this interchange, such as the Whitehall and industry scheme, the non-executive directorships and the very good training courses provided by the Civil Service.
§ Mr. Janner
How many of those appointed were women, and how many were members of ethnic minorities? What steps, if any, were taken to comply with the codes of the Commission for Racial Equality and the Equal Opportunities Commission in monitoring the appointments?
§ Mr. Luce
To be specific on all those questions, I should have to write to the hon. and learned Gentleman. Women make up about 50 per cent. of the Civil Service as a whole, but not at sufficiently senior levels, although we seek to encourage this as best we can. The same applies to the ethnic minorities. At national level, representation of black and Asian people is roughly the same as in the general population, but again the issue of promotion prospects will have to work its way through. My task is to ensure that we remain equal opportunity employers.
§ Mr. Holt
My right hon. Friend has given some interesting information about the upper levels of the Civil Service, but is he not concerned about the situation for junior ranks in London, which is so appalling that almost as many temporary as permanent staff have to be employed in the clerical grades? Could not much of the problem be overcome by generating jobs in the north of England, an issue on which we keep hearing promises but have seen no action?
§ Mr. Luce
My hon. Friend is right about the problems in London and the south-east, not just in the Civil Service, but in other sectors. Until recently we have had a dispersal policy. We also have a relocation policy. The end result is that today four out of five civil servants work outside London. The present climate and market pressures mean 18 that there are incentives for further changes in that direction, which I hope will lead to the result that my hon. Friend seeks.
§ Dr. Marek
Has there been a shortfall in the Government's plans for direct entry at grade 7 and above? If so, has the shortfall anything to do with the low rates of pay in the Civil Service? Irrespective of that aspect, are there sufficient civil servants at senior executive officer level ready for promotion to principal?
§ Mr. Luce
I am not aware of any major shortfalls in the direct entry process. An encouraging feature of the last direct entry round was that 50 per cent. of those who succeeded in the competition were people who wished to join the Civil Service after years of experience in the private sector. That is a healthy trend.