HC Deb 08 June 1988 vol 134 cc837-9
11. Mr. Allen

To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he will next meet the United States Secretary of State, Mr. Shultz; and what subjects he expects to discuss.

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I met Mr. Shultz in London last Friday and shall meet him again in Madrid this evening. We regularly discuss a wide range of bilateral and international topics.

Mr. Allen

When the Foreign Secretary meets Mr. Shultz in Madrid this evening, will he ask him what plans he has to reciprocate the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan? What gestures will be made by the American side? If Mr. Shultz has no concrete suggestions, will the Secretary of State suggest that Mr. Shultz should see his colleagues and friends in Honduras and ask them to disperse the Contra bases that still exist in that country?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I doubt whether I shall be discussing the latter point with Mr. Shultz in Madrid this evening, or in the near future. On the first point raised by the hon. Gentleman, he has a total misunderstanding of the situation. The idea that anyone should take any reciprocal action for the action of the Soviet Union in withdrawing its troops from Afghanistan is wholly without foundation. The world welcomes the decision by the Soviet Union to withdraw its troops and to complete withdrawal this year. We now look forward to an opportunity for the Afghan people to reach a comprehensive peace settlement on the basis of a Government acceptable to them all.

Mr. David Howell

In preparation for his meeting with Mr. Shultz, will my right hon. and learned Friend make it quite clear that, contrary to some newspaper reports, he holds no preference between one American presidential candidate and another in the forthcoming presidential election, that that is a matter for the American people to decide, and that either would do quite nicely?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. As I said on the David Frost programme on Sunday—that important organ of public opinion—it is part of the democratic process that one works with the leader who emerges at the end of the day. I and Her Majesty's Government look forward to continuing close and friendly co-operation with whatever Administration emerges.

Mr. Ernie Ross

When the Foreign Secretary meets Mr. Shultz tonight will he discuss with him the failure of his most recent peace initiative in the middle east? Will he try to explain to Mr. Shultz that it is no good making rather bellicose statements in Israel, Egypt or anywhere else in the middle east unless the Americans are prepared to meet the Palestinians, and that means meeting representatives of the Palestine Liberation Organisation? Would it not help if, when he meets Secretary Shultz tonight, he confirms that he intends to meet the Palestinian representatives?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

The hon. Gentleman may not have observed that on his arrival in Israel on this occasion, Mr. Shultz offered to meet Palestinian representatives, but unfortunately they were unwilling to meet him. The important thing to acknowledge about the latest sustained initiative by Secretary Shultz is the tenacity with which he is pursuing it. It is enormously to be welcomed that he is continuing his visits to the region, pressing both sides with the central, inescapable features that the prospects of peace must be founded on the recognition of Israel's right to a secure existence and on the recognition of the Palestinian right to self-determination, and that those parties must get together on that basis. I very much welcome the extent to which Mr. Shultz has been hammering home those essential features and emphasising to all those concerned that the present state of affairs cannot possible continue and they have to get together and look for a better future.

Mr. Bill Walker

When my right hon. and learned Friend meets Mr. Shultz and discusses with him the problems of the West Bank, will he remind him of the post-Palestinian era and that the Arab legion was the first occupying army on the West Bank? It occupied it in 1948 and was not removed until some time later. That has bedevilled the situation and the attempts that have been made to find peace in that area.

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I think that is one of the features which I shall not be drawing to Mr. Shultz's attention, because I do not think that either side is likely to find material for building a better future by digging that deep into the past.

Mr. Robertson

Over brandy this evening in Madrid, will the Secretary of State take the opportunity to explain to Mr. Shultz why only seven days after Mikhail Gorbachev and Ronald Reagan choked off the rhetoric of the cold war, the Secretary of State for Defence and the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office chose yesterday to kick-start the engine of confrontation by bleating out the redundant vocabulary about the increasing Soviet threat? Is it not bizarre that the Right-wing President of the United States of America should now be preaching international reconciliation while Ministers in this Government are preaching confrontation and conflict?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I have seldom heard the hon. Gentleman achieve such profound misunderstanding.[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley (Mr. Foulkes) says that if I were here more often I would hear it more often.

I shall try to resolve the misunderstanding between the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley and the hon. Member for Hamilton (Mr. Robertson). Of course we welcome the tremendous progress that has been made during the past five years in establishing a better, sustainable foundation for East-West relations, and it is important to acknowledge the part played by Mr. Reagan and by Mr. Gorbachev, but it would be foolish to allow ourselves to forget the continuing reality. As I said to the United Nations yesterday, the Soviet Union continues to maintain an offensive weapons posture and to launch a new submarine every 36 days, and it will achieve complete renewal of inter-continental resources from the mid-1980s to the 1990s. We have to maintain a reality in our minds while we go on working, as we shall go on working, for steady improvements in the long-term pattern of East-West relations.

Mr. Sackville

Will my right hon. and learned Friend impress on Mr. Shultz the fact that, however great are the improvements in United States-Soviet relations, the Soviet Union retains two important characteristics—it is the most heavily armed nation ever in peace-time and it is a dictatorship? That is a very dangerous combination.

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I shall continue to remind Mr. Shultz, although he does not need reminding of it, that there has been no reduction in the Soviet threat to Western Europe. It still retains a massive conventional superiority and an overwhelmingly large chemical weapons capability. Moreover, it still retains almost all of the features of a totalitarian state. Only modest qualifications have been made. Modifications are being made. We shall continue to press for them and to welcome them, but we shall continue to maintain the vigilance that is proper in this matter.