§ Q1. Mr. MarlandTo ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 19 July.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I hope to have an audience of Her Majesty The Queen.
§ Mr. MarlandDuring her busy day, will my right hon. Friend find time to reflect on the recent misery inflicted on holidaymakers at our airports? Bearing in mind the fact that many holidaymakers have saved for and looked forward to their holidays for the entire year, will my right hon. Friend try to end this chaos, meet the Civil Aviation Authority and ensure that incompetent heads roll?
§ The Prime MinisterI am indeed aware and concerned about the delays to holidaymakers, which, in large measure, have been due to actions in other countries. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport is meeting the chairman of the CAA today to discuss progress in improving the flow control system, and he has already amended the air traffic distribution rules to allow some limited use of Heathrow by chartered flights. I assure my hon. Friend that finance has not been a constraint on past investment. About £250 million worth of investment is planned for the next five years.
§ Mr. KinnockIs the Prime Minister aware that the United Nations calculates that since 1981 in the front-line states nearly 700,000 children have died, nearly 200,000 children have been orphaned and millions more suffer 943 hunger directly because of the war being conducted by South Africa against those front-line states? Against that background, will the Prime Minister increase support to the front-line states and ensure that that is reinforced by using strong sanctions against the source of the suffering and the slaughter—the apartheid regime of South Africa?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman will perhaps agree that if there were ever to be comprehensive sanctions against South Africa the number of people who would suffer, including children, would be infinitely greater. Calculations have been made about the number of children who would be affected. We give considerable help to the front-line states, especially £50 million to Mozambique, which, perhaps, suffers most of all, and we have given special additional help to build pathways and roadways so that people need not take their goods through South Africa, but have other routes to the ports.
§ Mr. KinnockThe aid given is welcomed, even though over six years it was cut by the Government by 40 per cent. Is the Prime Minister aware that every community, church, trade union, and township organisation in South Africa that is representative of the majority of people continually ask for sanctions—[Interruption.]—that the Commonwealth asks for sanctions and that the leadership of the front-line states calls for sanctions? Does the Prime Minister really think that she knows more about what needs to be done than those who live daily with apartheid and its aggression?
§ The Prime MinisterAlthough the right hon. Gentleman goes on about sanctions here in Westminster, by virtue of his recent visit he will know that the front-line states do not themselves apply sanctions, because they are aware of the devastating effect that they would have on their own economies and on their own peoples, as well as on the black people of South Africa. If the right hon. Gentleman wishes to see the calculations made by Operation Hunger in South Africa, supported by the private sector—but which we do a great deal to help—he will know that the effect of comprehensive sanctions would vastly increase the number of starving children to such an extent that it is doubtful whether they could be looked after.
§ Mr. KinnockThe vulnerability of the front-line states is no excuse for inaction by the Government. Is it not clear that, while giving support to the front-line states is right, without it being supported by sanctions against apartheid the Prime Minister earns the reputation of being the appeaser of the apartheid regime that makes war on the front-line states and kills their children?
§ The Prime MinisterOn the contrary, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, we completely and utterly condemn apartheid. A special sum of some £20 million is allocated to black South Africans to provide them with more education than they would otherwise have. I totally disagree with the right hon. Gentleman about sanctions, as did the previous Labour Government. Unlike him, I am not prepared to stand here comfortably in the House and impose starvation and poverty on millions and millions of black South Africans and black children. He is prepared to do that.
§ Mr. ColvinFurther to my right hon. Friend's reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucestershire, West 944 (Mr. Marland), will she consider again the possibility of night movements of aircraft from airports in the south-east—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—especially for aircraft in the NNC category, which are the new, quieter, wide-bodied jets, for a test period of 12 months? Will she use her power in Europe to press for a pan-European air traffic control system, backed by strictly enforced no-strike agreements with air traffic controllers?
§ The Prime MinisterNight restrictions at Gatwick allow some flexibility to help charter flights. When my right hon. Friend saw representatives of the airlines this morning he noted that they did not raise the question of night restrictions, because the flexibility already allowed there does not alter the commitment to improving the noise climate around airports. As my hon. Friend knows, internationally the responsibility for the co-ordination of air traffic control services in Europe rests with the European air navigation planning group within the International Civil Aviation Organisation, and everything possible is being done to step up that co-ordination. I agree with him that it would be a very good thing, especially for people in Europe, if there were no-strike agreements with air traffic controllers.
§ Q2. Mr. BuchanTo ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 19 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. BuchanDoes the Prime Minister believe that she knows better than the African people what is good for them? Does she not realise that this is not only a question of sense, but a question of morality? Has she read the report of the international conference at Harare about the treatment, imprisonment and killing of children in South Africa? Has the time not come for her to associate herself with some of the finest leaders in the world and to say, "Enough is enough. We shall not tolerate a country that declares war on its own people. We want sanctions now."?
§ The Prime MinisterAs the hon. Gentleman is aware, there is a great difference between what the black South African states say and what they do. They urge comprehensive sanctions, but they do not themselves impose—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The Prime Minister.
§ The Prime MinisterThey do not themselves impose sanctions from their own countries because of the poverty that that would cause their own people, as well as those in South Africa. I see nothing moral in sitting comfortably in the House of Commons and pronouncing poverty and starvation on many black children and black people in South Africa. That would only make the position worse. I am amazed that poverty and starvation have become Labour party policy on South Africa.
§ Q3. Mr. David EvansTo ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 19 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. EvansWill my right hon. Friend take time out of her busy day to confirm that her consular services are properly staffed, particularly in the southern Africa area, in view of the increase in the number of distressed subjects 945 in that part of the world? Will she also take time to ask the Zimbabwe Government whether they would commend the lance-corporal who refused to be bullied—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Questions must relate to the Prime Minister's responsibilities.
§ The Prime MinisterOur consular services and embassies are well staffed and able to deal with almost any situation. The aid that we give to the front-line states is greatly appreciated, as is the training that we give in Zimbabwe to the armed forces of that country.
§ Q4. Mr WinnickTo ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 19 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. WinnickWhy was the Prime Minister the only Head of Government of the major European countries who did not send birthday greetings to Nelson Mandela yesterday? Can she answer this question: if she is genuinely against apartheid, which many of us doubt, why is it that on every conceivable occasion she carries out a policy of appeasement towards South Africa in the same way as Neville Chamberlain did with Nazi Germany?
§ The Prime MinisterThe Government have made it clear on very many occasions, starting at the Commonwealth conference in the Bahamas, that we believe that Mr. Mandela and other political prisoners should be released and that there should be a suspension of violence on all sides. I do not think that the way in which the hon. Gentleman carries on about the matter is likely to achieve the release for which so many of us earnestly wish. I repeat that the front-line states and many black South Africans warmly appreciate the practical help in money terms that we give from this country to help them. That is very much better than the ranting and raving that we hear from Opposition Members.
§ Mr. JesselIs my right hon. Friend aware that any increase in night flights at Heathrow would be most deeply resented by hundreds of thousands of local residents, who do not see why they should lose one minute of their beauty sleep to enable other people to obtain marginally cheaper holidays—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. That was difficult for me to hear, let alone anyone else in the Chamber.
§ Mr. JesselDoes my right hon. Friend agree that the emergency at Gatwick could be resolved by sending charter planes to Stansted, which is under-used, instead of Heathrow, where people living nearby already suffer from noise and congestion of over 700 flights per day?
§ The Prime MinisterI heard the word Heathrow and I heard the word Stansted. My right hon. Friend has allowed extra flights into Heathrow to help the charter flights over the temporary difficulties. Of course, that does not alter the noise restrictions at night. With regard to Stansted, the Government traffic distribution rules do not prevent charter flights to Stansted, so operators are already free to use Stansted.
§ Q5. Mr. SkinnerTo ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 19 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. SkinnerIs the Prime Minister aware that the level of borrowing in this country at present is reaching frightening proportions, even worse than the Barber boom? Does she understand, that the proportion of family debt has increased since 1979 from 45 per cent. to more than 80 per cent. in 1988—[HON. MEMBERS: "Of what?"]—of residual income after tax? Does she understand that while she is going round the country talking about thrift and prudence, nobody is listening as she continues to operate her pawn-shop economy?
§ The Prime MinisterI have two points in reply to the hon. Gentleman. First, the rise in personal debt is matched by increased holdings of financial assets willingly held. Secondly, the whole tone of the hon. Gentleman's question must mean that he is absolutely delighted with the increase in interest rates.