HC Deb 18 July 1988 vol 137 cc783-4
24. Mr. Allen

To ask the Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission when the Public Accounts Commission last met; and what matters were discussed.

Sir Peter Hordern

The Commission's last meeting was held on Tuesday 12 July, when the subjects discussed included the salary of the Comptroller and Auditor General and the salary of the Northern Ireland Comptroller and Auditor General. The Commission also agreed a report on its recent activities. The report was published this morning.

Mr. Allen

Does the hon. Gentleman have any comment to make on the respective salary levels that obtain within the Public Accounts Commission, especially for Northern Ireland, where the situation is difficult?

Sir Peter Hordern

I have to report to the House that the Commission is not satisfied with the Government's attitude towards the salary of the Northern Ireland Comptroller and Auditor General, which has been both obstructive and negative. Ministers must understand that the independence of the Comptroller and Auditor General, whether here or in Northern Ireland, is vital to the proper execution of his duties. When I tell the House that it was seriously suggested that the Northern Ireland Civil Service should help to assess what the Northern Ireland Comptroller and Auditor General should be paid by way of salary, I think the House will appreciate how unsatisfactory the present position is.

Mr. Latham

Is my hon. Friend aware that the present Northern Ireland Comptroller and Auditor General did absolutely invaluable work in bringing forward the facts of the De Lorean scandal and making them known to the House? Is it not disgraceful that Ministers have left matters as they are? I know that my hon. Friend and the Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission have made a personal approach to Ministers, but will my hon. Friend go back to them again and insist that they take early action?

Sir Peter Hordern

Yes, we shall do that.

Mr. Robert Sheldon

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that the salaries of the Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland and of the Comptroller and Auditor General seem to be largely determined by the views of the Civil Service? As their function is to monitor and control expenditure by civil servants, that is a wholly unsatisfactory state of affairs. Will the hon. Gentleman accept the strong support of the House for the action that he is taking?

Sir Peter Hordern

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. What is particularly sad about the present impasse is that the common purpose that has existed for more than 100 years between this House and the National Audit Office has now been called into question. It is absolutely essential that the Comptroller and Auditor General should be seen to be independent of the Government and that his salary should not be directly related to any particular service or grade in the Civil Service. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we hope to have further discussions with the Government.

Sir Barney Hayhoe

Will my hon. Friend take note of the general view of the House on this matter, which is clearly in support of the strong, but wholly appropriate, language that my hon. Friend used about the Government's attitude to the salary of the Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland? It is very important, and I ask my hon. Friend to ensure that he makes the strongest renewed representations to Ministers asking them to think again.

Sir Peter Hordern

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his remarks. I shall certainly do that. The trouble is that the affairs of the Public Accounts Commission are not widely known, and I would therefore commend to the House the report of the Commission, which appeared today.