§
`At end of Section 21 (1) ( b ) of the Social Security Act 1986 there shall be inserted the words "and ( c ) if he is over the age of 18 and below pensionable age he shall not be paid a lower rate of benefit due to his age.".'.—[Mr. Fearn.]
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
249§ Mr. FearnI beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
The new clause deals with income support for young people. The intention is to remove the distinction between claimants for income support who are over and under the age of 25. From April 1988, single childless people between the ages of 18 and 24 who are entitled to claim for income support will receive £2605, while those aged 25 and over will receive £6 more. We are completely opposed to this distinction, as it is completely arbitrary. Why, for example, should a person aged 241 have fewer expenses and financial needs than someone six months older?
The Government perhaps believe that a person aged under rather than over 25 may be able to depend on parents. Forcing young people to depend on their parents is a recent trend in legislation and is a feature of clause 4 of the Social Security Bill. We should be encouraging young people to take full responsibility for their own lives.
The Liberal party is running an excellent campaign called "Youth Chance" which is designed to help young people take full advantage of their rights so that they can be more independent. In my constituency of Southport, young people certainly fight for their rights themselves, and I hope that they will continue to do so. The Government, by contrast, are helping to create an atmosphere of dependence around young people from which they will find it difficult to escape. That is totally against the Government's avowed aim to encourage independence among all people, and I am perplexed by this contradiction between the Government's aims and their actions.
The age limit of 25 used for income support is not a widely recognised age limit in the sense that 16, 18 and 21 years are commonly recognised ages that mark changes in a person's status. We now assume that once young people reach the age of 18 they are responsible adults and are expected to behave as such. This new age limit attacks that principle.
Similarly, the age limit of 25 years is not widely employed elsewhere in British legislation, so it is difficult to understand why it has been introduced for income support; unless, of course, it is merely a means by which the Government can save themselves a small amount of money. The amounts that will be saved are not great and the hardship and bitterness that this arbitrary age limit will cause cannot justify such a saving. I urge the Government to reflect on this very unfair distinction and to accept my amendment, which will prevent this injustice. I intend to take the matter to a Division.
§ Mr. Robin CookI remind the House that on many previous occasions the official Opposition have supported the principle advanced on this occasion by the hon. Member for Southport (Mr. Fearn). If he divides the House we shall be happy to divide with him. I do not think that at this late hour there is an argument of sufficient originality and novelty for the principle, which I could advance to the House, to change the minds of those who have already made up their minds. But I believe that the Government, in creating a quite new distinction between a full adult rate and a less than adult rate for those younger than 25, have introduced a new distinction into our social security system that is insupportable and cannot survive indefinitely.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Security (Mr. Michael Portillo)There are three things that we are not discussing tonight. One is the position of 16 and 17-year-olds. There has always been a lower rate of benefit for them under supplementary benefit, and the lower rate continues under income support. I do not think that is in dispute between us.
The second thing that we are not discussing is the position of couples because there will be no distinction in income support between what couples receive, whether above or below the age of 25. The third thing that we are not discussing is the position of parents because single parents will be paid the lone parent rate of income support, which is £33.40. On top of that they will receive the family premium, plus the single parent premium, plus the addition for the child.
The point that is at issue between us is the position of the single unemployed under the age of 25. Our movement away from the distinction of householder to a distinction on age grounds is dictated because we think this is a welcome simplification. All that is needed now to establish the entitlement of a claimant is one piece of information, the date of birth of the claimant. It avoids all the difficult points of definition that arise on householders and non-householders, let alone all the difficulties that arise if we try to divide benefits between people who are living together, sharing a house or a flat. As I have mentioned, there is a precedent for a division on age grounds in supplementary benefit, although I agree with the hon. Member for Southport (Mr. Fearn) that that division was not at age 25. There may not be a precedent for that age, but I will tell him in a moment why we think 25 is the right age for the division.
Most young people expect to receive less when they are young than do others who are longer in the tooth, or than they themselves will receive later in life. That would be their general position if they were in work. I do not think it is such a far-reaching idea that people who are young should be expected to live off a lesser amount of money than people who are a little older. We have not taken that principle to its logical conclusion because we are protecting families of whatever age by treating couples, whether below or above the age of 18, equally by giving the special rate to single parents.
We chose the age of 25 because there is fairly good evidence for that being an important age in the life style of young people. In fact, 90 per cent. of claimants over the age of 25 are householders. On the other hand, only one in five single claimants under the age of 25 is a householder. As a result of the reforms, given those figures, of the 810,000 single claimants between the ages of 16 and 24, 450,000 will gain and 200,000 will experience no change.
Young single claimants will receive rates compensation of £1 in income support even though, as will be clear to the House, the majority of them will not be liable to pay rates. The amount that we will pay in income support of £26.05 compares with the non-householder rate of supplementary benefit of £24.35.
The most important extra cost that a person might face if he was a householder is the housing cost. That is met by a different benefit, housing benefit. Under the reformed system, the starting point for the payment of rent under the income support scheme is 100 per cent. of that rent 251 payment. We believe strongly that housing benefit is the correct way to address the extra housing cost that a householder might have to face.
I think this is a welcome simplification. It represents a considerable improvement in the system. I believe, despite what the hon. Gentleman has said, that there is every logic to support the age of 25. I commend that approach to the House. I have to advise the House to reject the new clause.
§ Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:
§ The House divided: Ayes 176, Noes 297.
254| Division No. 131] | [10.34 pm |
| AYES | |
| Adams, Allen (Paisley N) | Flynn, Paul |
| Allen, Graham | Forsythe, Clifford (Antrim S) |
| Alton, David | Foster, Derek |
| Anderson, Donald | Fraser, John |
| Armstrong, Ms Hilary | Fyfe, Mrs Maria |
| Ashdown, Paddy | Galbraith, Samuel |
| Ashley, Rt Hon Jack | Garrett, John (Norwich South) |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Godman, Dr Norman A. |
| Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE) | Golding, Mrs Llin |
| Barron, Kevin | Gordon, Ms Mildred |
| Battle, John | Grant, Bernie (Tottenham) |
| Beckett, Margaret | Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) |
| Beggs, Roy | Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) |
| Bell, Stuart | Grocott, Bruce |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Harman, Ms Harriet |
| Bennett, A. F. (D'nt'n & R'dish) | Haynes, Frank |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Healey, Rt Hon Denis |
| Blair, Tony | Hinchliffe, David |
| Blunkett, David | Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth) |
| Boateng, Paul | Home Robertson, John |
| Boyes, Roland | Hood, James |
| Bradley, Keith | Howarth, George (Knowsley N) |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Hoyle, Doug |
| Brown, Gordon (D'mline E) | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Brown, Nicholas (Newcastle E) | Hughes, Sean (Knowsley S) |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Buchan, Norman | Illsley, Eric |
| Buckley, George | Ingram, Adam |
| Caborn, Richard | Janner, Greville |
| Callaghan, Jim | Jones, leuan (Ynys Môn) |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S W) |
| Campbell-Savours, D. N. | Kirkwood, Archy |
| Canavan, Dennis | Lamond, James |
| Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) | Leadbitter, Ted |
| Clay, Bob | Leighton, Ron |
| Clelland, David | Lestor, Miss Joan (Eccles) |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | Lewis, Terry |
| Cohen, Harry | Livingstone, Ken |
| Cook, Frank (Stockton N) | Lofthouse, Geoffrey |
| Cook, Robin (Livingston) | McAllion, John |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | McAvoy, Tom |
| Cousins, Jim | McCartney, Ian |
| Cox, Tom | Macdonald, Calum |
| Crowther, Stan | McKay, Allen (Penistone) |
| Cryer, Bob | McLeish, Henry |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | McNamara, Kevin |
| Cunningham, Dr John | McWilliam, John |
| Dalyell, Tarn | Madden, Max |
| Darling, Alastair | Marek, Dr John |
| Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H'l) | Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) |
| Dewar, Donald | Martin, Michael (Springburn) |
| Dixon, Don | Martlew, Eric |
| Doran, Frank | Maxton, John |
| Douglas, Dick | Meacher, Michael |
| Dunwoody, Hon Mrs Gwyneth | Meale, Alan |
| Eadie, Alexander | Michael, Alun |
| Eastham, Ken | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Evans, John (St Helens N) | Michie, Mrs Ray (Arg'l & Bute) |
| Ewing, Harry (Falkirk E) | Mitchell, Austin (G't Grimsby) |
| Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray) | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Fatchett, Derek | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Faulds, Andrew | Morley, Elliott |
| Field, Frank (Birkenhead) | Mowlam Marjorie |
| Fisher, Mark | Mullin, Chris |
| Murphy, Paul | Spearing, Nigel |
| Nellist, Dave | Steinberg, Gerald |
| Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon | Strang, Gavin |
| O'Brien, William | Straw, Jack |
| O'Neill, Martin | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Patchett, Terry | Taylor, Rt Hon J. D. (S'ford) |
| Pendry, Tom | Thomas, Dafydd Elis |
| Pike, Peter | Turner, Dennis |
| Powell, Ray (Ogmore) | Vaz, Keith |
| Prescott, John | Wallace, James |
| Primarolo, Ms Dawn | Walley, Ms Joan |
| Quin, Ms Joyce | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Robertson, George | Wareing, Robert N. |
| Robinson, Geoffrey | Williams, Rt Hon A. J. |
| Rogers, Allan | Williams, Alan W. (Carm'then) |
| Rowlands, Ted | Wilson, Brian |
| Salmond, Alex | Winnick, David |
| Sedgemore, Brian | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Sheerman, Barry | Worthington, Anthony |
| Shore, Rt Hon Peter | Wray, James |
| Skinner, Dennis | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) | |
| Smith, C. (Isl'ton & F'bury) | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Snape, Peter | Mr. Dafydd Wigley and |
| Soley, Clive | and Mr. Ronnie Fearn. |
| NOES | |
| Alexander, Richard | Chope, Christopher |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael | Churchill, Mr |
| Amess, David | Clark, Hon Alan (Plym'th S'n) |
| Amos, Alan | Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) |
| Arbuthnot, James | Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe) |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Conway, Derek |
| Arnold, Tom (Hazel Grove) | Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest) |
| Ashby, David | Coombs, Simon (Swindon) |
| Atkinson, David | Cope, John |
| Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley) | Couchman, James |
| Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N) | Cran, James |
| Baldry, Tony | Currie, Mrs Edwina |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Curry, David |
| Batiste, Spencer | Davies, Q. (Stamfd & Spald'g) |
| Beaumont-Dark, Anthony | Davis, David (Boothferry) |
| Bellingham, Henry | Day, Stephen |
| Bendall, Vivian | Dickens, Geoffrey |
| Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Dicks, Terry |
| Bevan, David Gilroy | Dorrell, Stephen |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Blackburn, Dr John G. | Dover, Den |
| Body, Sir Richard | Dunn, Bob |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Durant, Tony |
| Boswell, Tim | Dykes, Hugh |
| Bottom ley, Peter | Eggar, Tim |
| Bottomley, Mrs Virginia | Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd) |
| Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) | Evennett, David |
| Bowis, John | Fallon, Michael |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Dr Sir Rhodes | Fenner, Dame Peggy |
| Braine, Rt Hon Sir Bernard | Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) |
| Brandon-Bravo, Martin | Fookes, Miss Janet |
| Brazier, Julian | Forman, Nigel |
| Brittan, Rt Hon Leon | Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Forth, Eric |
| Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's) | Fowler, Rt Hon Norman |
| Browne, John (Winchester) | Franks, Cecil |
| Bruce, Ian (Dorset South) | Freeman, Roger |
| Buchanan-Smith, Rt Hon Alick | French, Douglas |
| Buck, Sir Antony | Gale, Roger |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Gardiner, George |
| Burns, Simon | Gill, Christopher |
| Burt, Alistair | Gilmour, Rt Hon Sir Ian |
| Butcher, John | Glyn, Dr Alan |
| Butler, Chris | Goodhart, Sir Philip |
| Butterfill, John | Goodlad, Alastair |
| Carlisle, John, (Luton N) | Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles |
| Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Carrington, Matthew | Gow, Ian |
| Carttiss, Michael | Gower, Sir Raymond |
| Cash, William | Grant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW) |
| Chalker, Rt Hon Mrs Lynda | Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Greenway, John (Rydale) |
| Chapman, Sydney | Gregory, Conal |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N) | Lloyd, Peter (Fareham) |
| Grist, Ian | Lord, Michael |
| Ground, Patrick | Luce, Rt Hon Richard |
| Hamilton, Hon A. (Epsom) | McCrindle, Robert |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Macfarlane, Sir Neil |
| Hanley, Jeremy | MacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire) |
| Hargreaves, A. (B'ham H'll Gr') | Maclean, David |
| Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn) | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Harris, David | McNair-Wilson, M. (Newbury) |
| Hawkins, Christopher | McNair-Wilson, P. (New Forest) |
| Hayes, Jerry | Madel, David |
| Hayhoe, Rt Hon Sir Barney | Major, Rt Hon John |
| Heathcoat-Amory, David | Malins, Humfrey |
| Heddle, John | Maples, John |
| Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael | Marland, Paul |
| Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE) | Marlow, Tony |
| Hicks, Robert (Cornwall SE) | Marshall, John (Hendon S) |
| Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L. | Marshall, Michael (Arundel) |
| Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm) | Martin, David (Portsmouth S) |
| Holt, Richard | Mates, Michael |
| Hordern, Sir Peter | Maude, Hon Francis |
| Howard, Michael | Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin |
| Howarth, Alan (Strat'd-on-A) | Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick |
| Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) | Mellor, David |
| Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W) | Meyer, Sir Anthony |
| Hunt, David (Wirral W) | Miller, Hal |
| Hunt, John (Ravensbourne) | Mills, lain |
| Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Irvine, Michael | Mitchell, David (Hants NW) |
| Jack, Michael | Moate, Roger |
| Jackson, Robert | Monro, Sir Hector |
| Janman, Timothy | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Morrison, Sir Charles (Devizes) |
| Jones, Robert B (Herts W) | Morrison, Hon P (Chester) |
| Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine | Moss, Malcolm |
| Key, Robert | Moynihan, Hon C. |
| King, Roger (B'ham N'thfield) | Mudd, David |
| Kirkhope, Timothy | Neale, Gerrard |
| Knapman, Roger | Nelson, Anthony |
| Knight, Greg (Derby North) | Neubert, Michael |
| Knowles, Michael | Newton, Rt Hon Tony |
| Knox, David | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Lamont, Rt Hon Norman | Nicholson, David (Taunton) |
| Lang, Ian | Nicholson, Miss E. (Devon W) |
| Latham, Michael | Onslow, Rt Hon Cranley |
| Lawrence, Ivan | Oppenheim, Phillip |
| Lee, John (Pendle) | Page, Richard |
| Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh) | Paice, James |
| Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark | Parkinson, Rt Hon Cecil |
| Lester, Jim (Broxtowe) | Patnick, Irvine |
| Lightbown, David | Patten, Chris (Bath) |
| Lilley, Peter | Patten, John (Oxford W) |
| Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant) | Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Pawsey, James | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Porter, David (Waveney) | Taylor, Teddy (S'end E) |
| Portillo, Michael | Thatcher, Rt Hon Margaret |
| Powell, William (Corby) | Thompson, D. (Calder Valley) |
| Raffan, Keith | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Raison, Rt Hon Timothy | Thorne, Neil |
| Redwood, John | Thornton, Malcolm |
| Renton, Tim | Thurnham, Peter |
| Rhodes James, Robert | Townsend, Cyril D. (B'heath) |
| Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon | Tracey, Richard |
| Riddick, Graham | Tredinnick, David |
| Ridley, Rt Hon Nicholas | Trippier, David |
| Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm | Trotter, Neville |
| Roberts, Wyn (Conwy) | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Roe, Mrs Marion | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Rowe, Andrew | Waddington, Rt Hon David |
| Rumbold, Mrs Angela | Wakeham, Rt Hon John |
| Ryder, Richard | Waldegrave, Hon William |
| Sackville, Hon Tom | Walker, Bill (T'side North) |
| Sainsbury, Hon Tim | Waller, Gary |
| Sayeed, Jonathan | Walters, Dennis |
| Scott, Nicholas | Ward, John |
| Shaw, David (Dover) | Wardle, C. (Bexhill) |
| Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') | Warren, Kenneth |
| Shelton, William (Streatham) | Watts, John |
| Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) | Wells, Bowen |
| Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) | Wheeler, John |
| Sims, Roger | Whitney, Ray |
| Skeet, Sir Trevor | Widdecombe, Miss Ann |
| Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Soames, Hon Nicholas | Wilkinson, John |
| Speller, Tony | Wilshire, David |
| Spicer, Sir Jim (Dorset W) | Winterton, Mrs Ann |
| Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Squire, Robin | Wolfson, Mark |
| Stanbrook, Ivor | Wood, Timothy |
| Steen, Anthony | Woodcock, Mike |
| Stern, Michael | Yeo, Tim |
| Stevens, Lewis | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Stewart, Allan (Eastwood) | |
| Stewart, Andrew (Sherwood) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Sumberg, David | Mr. Tristan Garel-Jones and |
| Summerson, Hugo | Mr. Robert Boscawen. |
| Tapsell, Sir Peter |
§ Question accordingly negatived.
§ Further consideration of the adjourned.—[Mr. Dorrell.]
§ Bill, as amended (in the Standing further considered tomorrow.