HC Deb 16 February 1988 vol 127 cc814-6
10. Mr. John Greenway

To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received on the cost implications of the Education Reform Bill.

Mr. Kenneth Baker

Many of the responses we have received have commented on the resource aspects. All representations, except those from individuals, are deposited in the Library.

Mr. Greenway

I recognise that spending per pupil has increased considerably under the Government and that we have substantial resources for the implementation of the GCSE, but does my right hon. Friend agree that the success of the Government education initiatives will depend on adequate resources being made available for the national curriculum and for the delegation of school budgets? Will he assure the House and parents that those popular policies will be properly financed?

Mr. Baker

Yes, I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. The Government are providing £150 million over the next three years specifically to help to implement the national curriculum proposed in the Education Reform Bill, which is now being considered in Committee, and to introduce CTCs. Substantial resources are also available for education support grants. It is important that such reforms should be financed properly. I am sure my hon. Friend will appreciate that the national curriculum will be phased in over a number of years.

Mr. Madden

What particular aspects of the Education Reform Bill does the Secretary of State think will benefit schools in places such as inner-city Bradford?

Mr. Baker

Specifically, the national curriculum. There is no doubt about that. The emphasis on basic skills in the national curriculum, the delegation of budgets to school heads, and the greater responsibility for head teachers and governors are all policies that are not only popular, but are to be supported by all the hon. Gentleman's Front-Bench colleagues upstairs.

Mr. Baldry

Is not the key part of the Education Reform Bill its proposals for local financial management, and have not these proposals been welcomed by every major teachers union? Will they not ensure that money is spent more cost-effectively and responsibly, according to the wishes of head teachers, parents and governors?

Mr. Baker

Yes, my hon. Friend is right. In those schools which already have delegated budgets the general pattern has been that money has been spent more effectively. Money has been saved and spent on the sharp end of teaching on extra facilities of one sort or another. These proposals are fundamental and important and will be introduced in the course of the next three or four years. They will certainly lead to greater efficiency and more cost-effectiveness.

Mr. Ron Brown

Is it not a disgrace that Edinburgh university—as revealed by the former admissions officer, Mrs. Ann McGuckin — discriminates against Scottish working-class youngsters in favour of deadbeats from English public schools with inferior qualifications? Is that not something that the Minister should consider? We speak about Victorian values, but is that not unacceptable to the majority of Scottish people?

Mr. Baker

I know of no discrimination against Scottish applicants going to Scottish universities. I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would welcome applications from English children. I am sure that many English children will benefit enormously from a Scottish education.

Mr. Harry Greenway

Does my right hon. Friend agree that a national curriculum will lead to curriculum-led staffing and the removal of the previous system whereby teachers were produced for non-existent subjects, and that that will itself lead to the saving of cash and the better deployment of teachers?

Mr. Baker

Certainly there will be a need to retrain some teachers. A concentration of subjects is implicit within the national curriculum and there will be some need to redeploy and retrain teachers in the foundation subjects. I agree that that will lead to the better redeployment of many teachers in our schools.

Mr. Fatchett

Is it not the case that over the next three years, according to DES figures, only £67 million will be spent as a direct result of the Education Reform Bill, and that money will be spent on developing assessment procedures and the work of the Schools Council in terms of the national curriculum? How much money will be spent in the classroom and on each individual child? Or will the Government's reforms simply be paid for by local authorities so that, yet again, the Government will not foot the bill for our children's education?

Mr. Baker

No. Schemes of assessment and testing, and their moderation, will be paid for from Government funds. We are providing £9 million to help polytechnics to become independent, and another substantial sum for the CTCs, which are part of the Education Reform Bill.

Mr. Salmond

Do we take it from the Secretary of State's apparent denial that there is bias against Scottish-qualified applicants to Edinburgh university that he has read the allegations referred to by the hon. Member for Edinburgh, Leith (Mr. Brown)?

Mr. Baker

I have seen the allegations, but there is little in them. The Government do not influence the admission procedures of various universities. They are a matter for the universities. It does little good to besmirch the reputation of such a great university as Edinburgh.