§ Order for Second Reading read.
§ Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North)I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerSecond reading what day?
§ Mr. CorbynI have moved, That the Bill be now read a Second time. I was quite distinct——
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. An objection, whenever it is made, stands. Objection has been taken; I am inviting the hon. Gentleman to nominate a day for Second Reading.
§ Mr. CorbynI am prepared to name a day for Second Reading, but my question to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker——
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman, if he so wishes, must name a day for Second Reading.
§ Mr. CorbynI will name a day—next Friday.
§ Second reading deferred till Friday next.
§ Mr. CorbynOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I wish to ask you two questions. First, I rose to move Second Reading of the Bill immediately after the Clerk read out the name of the Bill. My hon. Friends can attest to that fact. I did so before any person made any objection to the Bill from a sedentary position. At that point, we were into a Second Reading debate on the Bill — no objection had been made. Is it in order for an unnamed Member to mumble, at a later stage, "Object," to prevent this important matter, which will improve the living standards of 9 million pensioners, being debated in the House? Many people outside the House find it unbelievable and a disgrace that it is not prepared to spend time debating the plight of pensioners in our society.
§ Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerIs it on the same point of order?
§ Mr. SkinnerYes. These Fridays — this has been happening on a scale that I have not known since I have been here over the past 17 years—the Government send in some of their Whips to object to Bills that will increase the happiness and standard of life of 9 million pensioners 1329 in this country. They spent 20 minutes the other day in this House of Commons — the so-called mother of Parliaments — discussing the Moonies and just about every other subject under the sun. But when it comes to fighting on behalf of pensioners and passing Bills that will make their lives a lot easier, those whippersnappers from the Tory Benches object. They have not got the guts to stand up and be named. It is time that we had some rules.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerThe procedure that is being followed is well established in the House. It might be convenient if I were to remind the House that the Select Committee on Procedure reported on the matter as recently as 5 May 1987, in its second report. The Committee set out the arguments for and against identifying hon. Members who object to Bills being read a Second time without debate. It unanimously recommended no change in the present procedure. Such a change certainly could not be introduced without a formal decision of the House.
§ Mr. Paul Boateng (Brent, South)rose——
§ Mr. Harry Cohen (Leyton)rose——
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member for Islington, North would be well advised to read in Hansard what I have just said. It will be clear to him when he reads it that no possible additional point of order can arise.
§ Mr. CorbynFurther to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I have listened carefully to your statement that the Committee's report recommends no change to the existing procedure. I have discussed that procedure with many people who regularly come to the House to listen to debates. They can never believe that Members of Parliament are allowed to block legislation without identifying themselves. I put it to you formally, Mr. Deputy Speaker: will you please report the objection of a number of hon. Members, all of whom are prepared to identify themselves, to that procedure, and refer it back to the Committee so that it can be examined once again? We can then end the scandal of unnamed Tory Members blocking Bills concerning pensioners.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerThat is a matter for the hon. Member. It is clear from what I have just told the House that the Select Committee considered this matter fairly recently and that it came to a unanimous recommendation that the procedure should not be altered. It is perfectly open to the hon. Member to persuade the Select Committee on Procedure otherwise, but that is his job, and not mine.
§ Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield)Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Did not the report from which you have just quoted make a distinction between the right of an individual hon. Member to shout objection without being identified and a Government Whip doing that but still keeping his anonymity?
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerThe Select Committee went into that matter fully. I have read the report, and I strongly recommend those hon. Members who have not done so to read the extremely recent report of that Select Committee.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. It is clear that no further points of order can arise on this matter. Does the hon. Member have a point of order on another matter?
§ Mr. CohenYou, Mr. Deputy Speaker, were quite right to read out that passage about the right of any hon. Member to object under the existing rules, but, as far as I can see, these are not normal circumstances. My hon. Friend the Member for Islington, North (Mr. Corbyn) moved the Second Reading and the Government Whip who wished to object was, in my view, rather slow-witted and did not object until my hon. Friend the Member for Brent, South (Mr. Boateng) and other hon. Members had shouted, "Agreed." The House had agreed to that——
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. An objection applies at any stage after 2.30 pm. If the hon. Member reads the Select Committee report, he will find that the report and recommendations deal with this fully.
§ Mr. BoatengOn a different point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I seek information. Is it in order for any hon. Member wearing a red nose to raise any point of order? If it is, may I raise a point of order in favour of the Second Reading of the Elimination of Poverty in Old Age Etc. Bill?
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerWe must proceed.