§ Mr. Jim Sillars (Glasgow, Govan)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I have already given you private notice of this matter. I refer to Scottish Question Time well ahead of 21 December, when we should first discuss these matters. I refer also to substantial interventions made by English Members during Scottish Question Time. I am seeking a remedy from you within the powers that are available to you and within your responsibilities.
On 30 November, in column 714 of Hansard, when the Scottish Transport Group statement was before the House, there was an interruption on the Opposition side of the House, no doubt because a Conservative Member representing an English constituency wished to speak. You said:
This is a United Kingdom Parliament."—[Official Report, 30 November 1988; Vol. 142, c. 714.]However reluctantly, I acknowledge that that is the case. More importantly, in column 352 of Hansard, on 22 July 1987, you are recorded as saying:Scottish Members take part in English Question Times and English Members may take part in Scottish Question Times."—[Official Report, 22 July 1987; Vol. 120, c. 352.]You, Mr. Speaker, seriously misdirected yourself on the facts. This is not a personal attack upon you. I am sure that at some time in their careers everyone sitting in the House of Lords, the highest Bench, has misdirected himself. The important thing is that, when somebody misdirects himself, he must re-examine the conclusions that he drew at that time.
I have carefully looked through questions on the Order Paper, Department by Department. In my humble opinion, there is no such thing as a Department that can be categorised as dealing only with English questions. Moreover, even the Department of the Environment, which has a finger in the pie in the administration of Edinburgh castle, has a United Kingdom dimension, however large or small.
I have read "Erskine May" and Standing Orders. In a sense, the House is rather like the legal system, which operates on the common law and on statute, the common law being practice and the statutes being the Standing Orders. Under the heading "Written and Unwritten Procedure", in page 209 of "Erskine May", it states:
On its smaller scale, the study of English parliamentary procedure presents the same difficulty as the study of English law in that its rules are not covered by any comprehensive and authoritative code.It goes on to state:The written part is merely a pendant to the unwritten part.We must look at "Erskine May" and Standing Orders to define exactly what your powers and responsibilities are, Mr. Speaker. Obviously, practice is important. When I was previously in the House, the practice was quite clear. Scottish Question Time was dealt with by Members of Parliament from Scottish constituencies. Looking at Standing Orders, which are the equivalent of statute law, the recognition of the Scottish dimension within the United Kingdom Parliament has been a progressive affair over a period of years.
When I first came to the House in 1970—you will recall this from your previous incarnation also, Mr. Speaker—when the Scottish Grand Committee was established, people such as Sir William van Straubenzee, who told the 203 Tory Whips that his name rhymed with Mackenzie, were directed to the Scottish Grand Committee. In those days Committees were made up to represent the Government and the Opposition numbers in the House. Many English Members served on the Scottish Grand Committee—a sort of purgatory for those whom the Whips did not like. Over time, that practice has been dispensed with.
Above all, this is a political institution, and it must be sensitive to political reality. It became an untenable practice to load the Scottish Grand Committee with Members of Parliament representing English constituencies. Why has the practice—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. That is not a point of order for me. The hon. Gentleman is raising general matters.
§ Mr. SillarsI am sorry, Mr. Speaker, but I must disagree with you. They are specific matters. We are talking about the change in practice, and that change is a recent one. It goes back only to the 1987 general election results. If you compare the period before that with the period since the general election, you will see that the practice has fundamentally changed. I suggest that the matter is within your powers and responsibilities. It is no longer the case that Scottish Question Time is reserved for Scottish Members of Parliament.
I seek two actions from you, Mr. Speaker. They are within your powers and responsibilities. The relevant authorities setting out your powers and responsibilities are "Erskine May" and Standing Orders. "Erskine May", in page 334, clearly states:
The Speaker is the final authority as to the admissibility of questions.The Speaker's responsibility in regard to questions is limited to their compliance with the rules of the House.I shall quote an analysis of Scottish Question Time since this Parliament was established after the general election.
§ Mr. SpeakerAs we have an important debate following this matter, in the interests of the House—we are dealing with the interests of the House—I think it would be sensible if the hon. Gentleman were to come to see me about this matter, when I would gladly and willingly consider it with him in great detail. I do not think that it is appropriate to raise these issues when we have such a busy day in front of us.
§ Mr. SillarsThat is an unacceptable suggestion from you, Mr. Speaker, because "Erskine May" tells us that the place to raise a point of order of public concern is in the House, and that is exactly what I am doing. I am about to give you an analysis of the position since 1987 which demonstrates clearly the unacceptability of the new practice that you have introduced.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman must not make accusations like that. Come to the point and I shall deal with it.
§ Mr. SillarsThis is not a question of accusations—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I have been here at Question Time and the hon. Gentleman has not been here. I know what he is talking about, and I do not need to be reminded of it.
§ Mr. SillarsI take it that you are familiar with the fact that English and Welsh Tory Members of Parliament have asked nearly 20 per cent. of balloted questions and 15.9 per cent. of supplementaries, whereas the SNP has asked only 204 5.9 per cent. of supplementaries—[Interruption.] It is you, Mr. Speaker, who selects supplementaries. Four Tory Members representing English constituencies have been able to ask more questions than my hon. Friends in the SNP parliamentary group.
I will tell you why I am raising this with you in public, Mr. Speaker. On 21 December I want to ask the Secretary of State for Scotland a question about drug abuse in Govan and how further aid can be given to communities dealing with that problem. My constituents will fail utterly to understand if I am knocked out of the queue by English Tory Members who have no interest in the Scottish matter. Therefore, I am asking you to say that you will not select English Tory Members to ask supplementaries and that you will convene a conference of the Whips of the four relevant parties.
I hope that you will not refer me to the usual channels, Mr. Speaker, because, if you do, I shall refer you to Standing Order No. 130, which lays an obligation on this House to have a Select Committee on Scottish Affairs. The operative word is not "may" but "shall". Eighteen months into this Parliament, the usual channels have still failed to deliver.
§ Mr. Bill Walker (Tayside, North)Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerAfter 10 minutes on the preceding point, another two minutes on this will be about enough.
§ Mr. WalkerI have no wish to detain the House. When you take into consideration all the points raised by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Sillars), as I am sure you will, I trust that you will bear in mind the fact that Members, such as myself, who regularly attend Question Time, are frequently not called because of the numbers on these Benches. Frequently, Scottish Labour Members are called on matters in which we on this side have an interest. That is how this balances out. I hope that you will bear that in mind when you consider such aspects of this United Kingdom Parliament.
§ Mr. SpeakerI repeat that this is a United Kingdom Parliament and I have no authority to change that. It is a heavy responsibility for Mr. Speaker to be completely even handed. We welcome back the hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Sillars) after some time—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] Order. In that case I welcome the hon. Gentleman back. He only needs to do the arithmetic to see that if the Chair were wholly fair no Member of Parliament would be called to speak in a debate more than about four times a Session on average. If he looks at the record, he will find that members of his party have done rather better than that, largely because I have an obligation to look after the rights of minority parties.
I shall certainly not be put in a position of agreeing only to call Scottish Members at Scottish Question Time because this is a United Kingdom Parliament and certain questions, for instance on the Forestry Commission, can be answered only by Scottish Ministers. Therefore, it is perfectly legitimate for English Members to table questions on the day for Scottish questions and to participate as Members of a United Kingdom Parliament, just as it is legitimate for Scottish Members to take part in questions directed to other Departments, as was the case at both Employment Question Time and Prime Minister's 205 Question Time today. I had not anticipated what the hon. Gentleman was going to say, but his party did rather well today. I do not think that he has any complaint.
§ Mr. SillarsFurther to that point of order—
§ Mr. SpeakerNo. I am not taking it again.
§ Mr. Dennis Canavan (Falkirk, West)I raised a similar point of order in July last year about the first Scottish Question Time after the general election. If you check Hansard, Mr. Speaker, you will see that you made a mistake in referring to English questions and you corrected yourself afterwards and reference to said United Kingdom questions.
The hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Sillars) makes a fair point. There is nothing in the Standing Orders to prohibit an English Member from intervening in Scottish Question Time, but until July 1987 by custom, tradition and practice only rarely, if ever, did English Members intervene in Scottish Question Time. The tradition was broken last year because, to be blunt, the Labour party was too successful in Scotland, winning 50 of the 72 seats, and the Tories were reduced to a discredited rump of 10. We are being punished for our success because now it is more difficult for a Scottish Labour Back Bencher to catch your eye due to the infiltration of English Tory Members. All we are asking is that you use your discretionary power, Mr. Speaker, return to what was the custom and tradition of the House before July 1987, and let us have more opportunities to speak on behalf of our constituents.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I am on my feet. 206 I also have to bear in mind that we have questions to the Northern Ireland Office. In the past, I have been heavily criticised by Labour Members who have not been called for calling too many Northern Ireland Members to ask questions and supplementaries. Some of those hon. Members are nodding their heads now. I have a heavy responsibility and the House had best leave this to Mr. Speaker, whom I hope they trust to be entirely fair.
§ Mr. James Couchman (Gillingham)Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the substantial transfer payments from England to Scotland, is it not entirely reasonable that English Members should represent English taxpayers' interests by asking questions about Scottish business at Scottish Question Time?
§ Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan)Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. May we have your direction on the point raised about Standing Order No. 130, which states that a Select Committee on Scottish Affairs "shall be" established, not "might" or "may be" established. What recourse do I have as a Back-Bench Member to ensure that this House follows its Standing Orders? Is that matter not in your province, Mr. Speaker?
§ Mr. SpeakerLast week there was a procedure debate in which the Leader of the House promised a debate on that very matter. If the hon. Member and his hon. Friends think that Mr. Speaker's practice should be changed, we have a Procedure Committee which has wide powers of reference and he could put this matter about Scottish questions to it. If the House in its wisdom decides that only Scottish Members should be called at Scottish Question Time or only Ulster Members at Northern Ireland Question Time, I shall follow that decision. Until then, I propose to carry on as I have in the past, being even handed to both sides of the House.