Nurses (Grading) (Hansard, 5 December 1988)

§ 2. Mr. Win Griffiths
To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received on the new grading structure for nurses.

§ Mr. Grist
I have received 11 letters from Members of Parliament, a trade union, individual nurses, and members of the public.

§ Mr. Griffiths
Does the Minister acknowledge that, despite the total increase in funding available for the new wage settlement, the Government have made several strategic errors? First, in the pay review, they did not make any allowance for midwives' extra training. Secondly, they influenced health authorities, at least those in Wales, to review their own review of the pay structure. That has resulted in some nurses in the Mid-Glamorgan health authority area receiving altered forms giving their new gradings, and their gradings being reduced because of the cash limit imposed by the Welsh Office? Will the Welsh Office confirm that such an exercise did take place and that Mid-Glamorgan had to reduce the gradings that were offered to many of its nurses?

§ Mr. Grist
First, all the demands that were made on the grading structure were met by the Government. There was no cut at all. Every penny was paid that was agreed by the grading structure. Secondly, the hon. Gentleman mentioned midwives. Of the midwifery sisters on G grade, 86.7 per cent. have a rise of £1,925 to £3,025, which is rather above that of charge sisters and those with whom they are compared. There has been a slight mistake in thinking that, under the agreements that were reached with the unions, midwives have actually been done down. They have not.

§ Sir Raymond Gower
What use has been made of the appeals procedure that was agreed by the various unions at the onset of this matter?

§ Mr. Grist
The appeals system has been started. Each health authority is organising it, according to the agreement that was originally reached. I urge all trade unions involved to abide by that, not least because a warning has been given by most health authorities that they will not consider appeals while people are striking and demonstrating. Quite reasonably, most hon. Members would agree.

§ Mr. Rogers
Does the Minister accept that severe problems are arising out of the regrading? However the grades were set out, and however fair they might appear, the allocations within grades are creating anomalies. Many people, particularly those on lower grades, have 4 received pennies in rises, not the pounds that the hon. Gentleman is talking about. Will the Government look at that matter? Will they remember that the appeals procedure is so long-winded that few appeals have been heard in Mid-Glamorgan?

§ Mr. Grist
The hon. Gentleman should appreciate—I hope that he will pass this on to others—that the appeals procedure should be carried out with good will. There is no intention of doing anybody down. Nobody is being paid pence. Nursing auxiliaries on A grade are getting a rise of between £435 and £445 a year. That is the very bottom level. Many nurses and staff have been somewhat misled about what to expect and about what they will receive in their pay packets any day now.

§ Sir Anthony Meyer
Is it not a fact that the overwhelming majority of nurses are getting substantial rises, many well in excess of £1,000 a year? Would not almost every profession in the public service regard such rises as very generous?

§ Mr. Grist
The rises are not merely remarkable—rises of 45 per cent. in real terms, on average, since the Government came to power—but they compare quite astoundingly with the 20 per cent. real fall in value under the Labour Government.

§ Mr. Michael
The figures sound nice, but, as the Minister has given such inadequate answers to hon. Members, will he answer a nurse who has written to me? She asks: Where is the 18 per cent. rise the nurses are supposed to have had? As one of the NHS nurses I can assure you I have had 4 per cent. along with the majority in Cardiff royal infirmary. She goes on: We feel that Maggie Thatcher or the south Glamorgan health authority"— [Interruption.] She went on to state that she felt that the Prime Minister or the south Glamorgan health authority has trampled on the nursing profession yet again. We know who is trampling on the nurses. Will the Minister answer her?

§ Mr. Grist
I am happy to congratulate my neighbour on his new position, but I cannot congratulate him on his question. Even if his correspondent were to have received the 4.2 per cent. rise, she would have had a rise of about £500 a year. She would have been at the top of her grade. The lady who wrote to the hon. Gentleman should wait until she gets the next pay settlement. Perhaps she will be surprised.