HC Deb 25 April 1988 vol 132 cc8-9
7. Mr. Michael

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what steps he intends to take to tackle the problem of personal debt in Wales and to ensure that adequate services of money management, advice and debt counselling are available to families and individuals in Wales.

Mr. Peter Walker

As my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry recently made clear to the hon. Gentleman, a great deal of advice and help on debt problems are already provided free of charge by citizens advice bureaux and other organisations. Funding from my Department is provided under the urban programme to a number of organisations of this kind.

Mr. Michael

Will the Secretary of State accept that the question that he has not answered is what steps he intends to take to tackle the problem, in view of the greater intensity that will hit us as a result of the Government's legislation on social security? Will he accept that the replies to similar questions that have been given by the Secretary of State for Social Services and by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, who has a responsibility for trade and industry, have been woefully light and inadequate? The only remaining possibility of help for people in Wales on this desperately serious problem is for the Secretary of State to take some positive action. Will he answer more affirmatively about what he will do on this matter?

Mr. Walker

As I mentioned, one of the main sources of advice are the citizens advice bureaux. I am delighted that Government funding of those organisations has more than quadrupled during the period that we have been in power.

Mr. Rowlands

Does the Secretary of State support the advice of his other Ministers that elderly people in communities such as mine should go further into debt either to pay for their hip operations or to cover the losses in benefit and rate rebate that the Government are now imposing?

Mr. Walker

I do not believe that any such advice was given.

Mr. Alan Williams

Is the Secretary of State proud to be a loyal, long-serving, unprotesting member of a Cabinet which, to save £13 million in Wales, has told the poorest people in our second poorest region that they must go without necessities, take loans from the Department of Health and Social Security, beg from charities or throw themselves on the mercy of loans sharks? Will he give his view on a piece of advice that was given? Does he echo the Prime Minister's advice to a 73-year-old Welsh woman that she should take out a bank loan?

Mr. Walker

I am delighted to support a Government who, unlike the Government of whom the right hon. Gentleman was a junior Minister, are spending 42 per cent. more in real terms on the National Health Service and doing far more for education and for pensioners. I find the right hon. Gentleman's hypocrisy staggering.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I must ask the Secretary of State to withdraw the word "hypocrisy" which he levelled against the right hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Walker

I withdraw the word "hypocrisy" and substitute "surprising".