HC Deb 26 October 1987 vol 121 cc8-9
Mrs. Clywd

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will now respond to the Public Accounts Committee's recent report criticising the management of public funds in relation to several Welsh institutions.

Mr. Peter Walker

The Government will respond to the Committee of Public Accounts' report in the usual way. A Treasury minute will be published on 28 October.

Mrs. Clywd

Is the Secretary of State aware that the accounts of the National museum of Wales were not available for scrutiny by the Court of Governors on Thursday because they still have not been passed by the Welsh Office? Will he tell us when those accounts will be available? Does he agree with the Public Accounts Committee that the Welsh Office has been totally irresponsible and complacent in failing to oversee a considerable amount of public money, when the people of Wales are crying out for money to be spent on education, housing, health and employment?

Mr. Walker

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her pre-briefing of her supplementary, which appeared in the Western Mail this morning. I am as anxious as she is to ensure the maximum efficiency in all public expenditure, be it the National museum of Wales, the health authorities or the local authorities. We decided that independent consultants should be appointed to carry out the financial management and policy review on the national museum. They were appointed in September, proceeded with all due speed, and are expected to report by the end of the year.

Mr. Gwilym Jones

Has my right hon. Friend noticed that the National museum of Wales has put forward discussion proposals for streamlining its court and its council? Has he noticed that effectively the first part of its proposal would be to remove from its council the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd)?

Mr. Walker

I have not made any such observation.

Mr. Alan Williams

Will the Minister ensure that the consultants report not just on the conduct of the national museum authority but on the conduct of the Welsh Office? Does he recognise that salaries make up the major element of the costs of the museum, and is he aware that those Civil Service salaries are set not by the museum authority but by the Government? Will he bear in mind that virtually the whole of the shortfall that has been commented upon publicly has arisen from the failure of the Government and in particular his predecessor to make provision from public funds for the salary increases that the Government have awarded?

Mr. Walker

I do not agree with that conclusion. I believe, as I think the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd) believes, that there is scope for better general and financial management of the museum. The portion of blame with any Government Department as the monitoring Department is something of a delicate nature. If one interferes too much with the detail one is accused of running the national musuem, which the Welsh Office has no desire to do. On the other hand, if one accepts statements as to predictions that then do not take place, one is blamed when they do not take place. It is quite a delicate relationship. All I can say is that in my meetings with the National museum there is a determination to implement the best and most successful financial and general managerial systems, and I hope that that will result.