HC Deb 24 November 1987 vol 123 cc133-4
13. Mr. Campbell-Savours

To ask the Secretary of State for Social Services what representations he has received on the question of care in the community in the last month.

Mrs. Currie

We continue to receive a considerable number of representations. Those received last month included the letter of the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) of 6 October, to which I replied yesterday.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

Is it not outrageous that Kent county council has ignored allegations made by Yorkshire Television about community care in Kent and the treatment of the elderly and mentally handicapped? Is it not significant that the Conservative-controlled Kent county council discussed those allegations behind closed doors and that it has taken no action at all, despite repeated representations by Labour councillors about the fact that criminal elements own homes in Kent and are licensed by the local authority? Will the Minister intervene now, or do we have to see heartless Thatcherism at its very worst persist?

Mrs. Currie

I am disappointed that the hon. Member is not in the least interested in the excellent developments in this field in Workington. He has asked me about Kent. He should be aware that Kent county council has not only taken immediate action, but had taken action before the television company got round to making its programme. The council is fulfilling its statutory obligations in the way that we would expect of it.

Mr. Rowe

Is my hon. Friend aware that Kent has one of the most innovative community care and residential care programmes in the country and that, as she hinted, a great many of the defects to which the programme drew attention had already been rectified before the programme went out?

Mrs. Currie

My hon. Friend is quite right to be very angry at the stupid remarks made by the hon. Member for Workington.

Mr. Ashley

Is the Minister aware that the financing of community care is hopelessly muddled between hospitals, local authorities and her Department? Until that is clarified and far more money is provided for community care, it will remain more of a slogan than a reality.

Mrs. Currie

The right hon. Gentleman will remember that I was a member of the Select Committee which reported on community care a little while ago. That Committee said very much the same sort of thing. That is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State last year asked Sir Roy Griffiths to report to us on the pattern of financing and how it might assist us to promote further that important policy.

Mr. Simon Coombs

Has my hon. Friend received representations directly on the worrying number of cases of individuals with mental illness or mental handicap, particularly those with behavioural problems, who are being passed to and fro between the social services and local authorities, very much to their disadvantage? The buck is being passed to and fro. Has my hon. Friend received those representations herself?

Mrs. Currie

The appropriate care and treatment of mentally ill people, particularly those who are voluntary patients, is extremely difficult. I am aware that the number of mental illness units in the Health Service in general hospitals has increased and the number of in-patients has decreased, which has enabled our staff to look after them much better.

Mr. Fearn

Does the Minister agree that the onus for care is now falling on voluntary bodies and that those bodies have no budgets to deal with it? The carers association in Southport receives a grant of only £50.

Mrs. Currie

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman can make the appropriate representations to the authorities in Southport on that.

Mr. Patrick Thompson

Bearing in mind the problems faced by the families of those who are mentally ill, even in areas such as Norfolk, where the community care programme is going quite well, does my hon. Friend agree that attention needs to be paid to the rate of closure of the larger mental hospitals, as outlined by the Select Committee, which was referred to a moment ago, and by the early-day motions on the Order Paper at present?

Mrs. Currie

Yes, I share my hon. Friend's concerns. The care in the community initiative is neither a cheap option nor an exercise to achieve indiscriminate hospital closures. We look to Sir Roy Griffiths to advise us shortly on how we may proceed.